From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3580713877A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:16:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F23A9E083A; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:16:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67A9DE082F for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:16:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.3.7] (cpe-74-77-145-97.buffalo.res.rr.com [74.77.145.97]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: blueness) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 33B7333FDCC for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:16:35 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <53B5902E.8080303@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2014 13:17:34 -0400 From: "Anthony G. Basile" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council 2014 / 2015 election References: <539BD2E2.7030803@gentoo.org> <1757239.UAu395ci7F@kailua> <53B2E4CA.1080408@gentoo.org> <3677509.vVmt2iqRkA@kailua> <53B53E12.10209@opensource.dyc.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 2df80f75-8ad5-49d8-8b99-6495e330d59c X-Archives-Hash: 7dd71b7ea162aaf8ebb087386a5008c8 On 07/03/14 07:39, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Anthony G. Basile > wrote: >> >> ComRel has acted in a way that some devs think was "unfair" and they have >> asked the council to censure comrel. You were one of the people who voted >> for the allegedly unfair action. In all good conscience, you think it was >> the right thing to do. How do you vote on the council? Do you criticize >> comrel or do you uphold their decision? >> > > How is this any different from any other issue where some devs ask the > council to do something that a council member feels in good conscience > shouldn't be done? > > Either you trust a council member to do the right thing, or you don't. No, its not that you trust someone or you don't --- you might trust them in some situations but not others. Usually the discriminating factor is whether the person is "untainted" by the issue, ie. you can't see any reason why they would judge one way or another out of self-interest. We sometimes call this "objectivity". Part of the subtext I see in this thread is "how do we structure our governance such that we preserve objectivity." So, my answer is you probably can't and when someone finds themselves in what is perceived as a conflict of interest by many (even if the person himself doesn't think so), then abtain. > > If one team is censuring another that is a sign that we've already > failed. We shouldn't be putting people into power who can't agree on > anything - that just leads to chaos. As a community we should be > deciding how we want things run, and then put people into both ComRel > and the Council who uphold that. That is why I think that the > adjustments that were made to QA were a good thing. > > Infighting is a sign of poor governance, not good checks and balances. > This isn't some country where millions of people vote and 80% of them > pull a party lever - we have <250 voters and I hope that most of us > know what is going on here and can pick the right candidates. We > don't need to create opposing centers of power so that we can watch > nothing get done out of fear that if something does get done it will > be the wrong thing. > > Rich > -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] E-Mail : blueness@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA