12.05.2014 01:12, hasufell пишет:
> Patrick Lauer:
>> On Saturday 10 May 2014 12:46:31 hasufell wrote:
>>> Samuli Suominen:
>>>> On 09/05/14 21:37, Tom Wijsman wrote:
>>>>>> It's counterproductive, means now user needs to read sourcecode of
>>>>>> each package to determine it for himself, no global USE="gtk"
>>>>>> possible anymore, massive pollution of package.use.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, rehashing it in a thread to which it is unrelated yields no results.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not so sure, it seems QA is picking policies as per what some loud
>>>> people on the ML say as opposed to giving overwhelming technical arguments
>>>> their proper weight
>>>
>>> Well, if QA team members confuses "bugs" with "bug reports" and say they
>>> don't want to do actual work (aka tinderbox), because it would cause
>>> more "bugs", then I have serious doubts about their technical
>>> understanding of certain issues.
>>
>> It's not about "want", it's about having the resources (mostly time) to do so.
>>
>> If you wish to experience that for yourself - just build everything (I can 
>> give you a script to do so), and then triage bugs. It's great fun for the first 
>> few hundred failures :)
>>
> 
> I hear you.
> 
> Anyway, last time I spoke with the QA lead, he said that QA has
> currently enough manpower.
> 
> It's a little bit confusing.
> 
> What I am pissed about are the arguments other people have given (not
> you), not the missing tinderbox... really. I appreciate every hour
> people put in gentoo. It isn't about "you didn't get enough stuff done",
> at all.
> 
> It is about some comments that reveal the way QA (or some parts of it)
> thinks about itself. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Something about that needs to change, IMO. And I don't necessarily mean
> a regrouping of members or something similar. We already tried that,
> didn't we? Let's not make it a habit.
> 
> 
> It's sad that you have to yell out that loud before people actually
> listen. But the fact is... you have to.
> In the end, the blame is on the guy who yelled, not on the people who
> didn't listen, because CoC doesn't really cover the latter.
> 

You know that we do not forbid any ordinary developer to help us, that's
what said on our project page. If you think that you can create
tinderbox that can be official for Gentoo - just go for it and when you
will done - begin to receive kudos for great job.

Cause now i see much yelling about tinderbox(not only from you), but no
real progress globally. Diego did some job about tinderbox and Patrick
doing this job about it now.

What's your progress? Some scripts? Architectural design?

As for me - i said earlier: i can donate resources. I do not have enough
knowledge to build good tinderbox solution for the whole distro myself.
That's the true.

And yes, we need tinderbox. But, c'mon. stop talking loudly on ML and
get things done if you can.

-- 
Best regards, Sergey Popov
Gentoo developer
Gentoo Desktop Effects project lead
Gentoo Qt project lead
Gentoo Proxy maintainers project lead