From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (unknown [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC961381FA for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 18:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 28830E09FE; Sun, 11 May 2014 18:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AADCE09F8 for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 18:07:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.174.127.233] (unknown [85.76.55.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ssuominen) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D37633FDE4 for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 18:07:10 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <536FBC15.7050701@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 21:06:13 +0300 From: Samuli Suominen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Call For Agenda Items - 13 May 2014 References: <536CE132.1070305@gentoo.org> <20140509172925.29e3f212@gentoo.org> <536D13CF.2000403@gentoo.org> <536D183A.1020405@gentoo.org> <536D1C28.1010504@gentoo.org> <20140509203727.1d6a3e69@gentoo.org> <536D2231.6030808@gentoo.org> <536E1FA7.5050704@gentoo.org> <536E2CE8.1070807@gentoo.org> <20140511161420.41fce9f7@gentoo.org> <20140511185146.36e09a2d@marga.jer-c2.orkz.net> <536FB4B6.8080500@gentoo.org> <20140511195404.40e5277b@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <20140511195404.40e5277b@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 707da74e-bd6f-4a1b-8fe9-6d463ec06349 X-Archives-Hash: 50ce1a94cab8d26dd98226aeee6da4f3 On 11/05/14 20:54, Tom Wijsman wrote: > On Sun, 11 May 2014 20:34:46 +0300 > Samuli Suominen wrote: > >> On 11/05/14 19:51, Jeroen Roovers wrote: >>>> 14) "TomWij is improving qa, didn't you notice? ;)". >>>> >>>> Do people really expect QA to be communicative, be motivated and >>>> work? >>> Of course we do, but are you sure you're tackling this problem the >>> right way? I haven't looked into this, but from your quotations and >>> from random comments on IRC I get the sure feeling you are perhaps >>> pushing people too hard, or at the least rubbing them the wrong way. >>> There is no hierarchy that puts QA above developers - you work with >>> volunteers and they are all trying their best to get things fixed, >>> even when this isn't immediately obvious to you or when the best >>> solution doesn't immediately present itself. And when you decide to >>> force issues through policies, you find that you don't actually >>> have the resources to do that, unless you are prepared to drive out >>> the volunteers you expected to start "fixing" things. Are matters >>> of "policy" the carrot or the stick? >> exactly what i'm thinking too. thanks, well put! ;) > It means that you haven't looked; you can't held such expectations if > you talk to the QA team with a fictional prejudgment, it might be well > put but that doesn't make it reflect the truth. It are thoughts; that > is, until you want to share it with QA what it is that you think about > as to make it into our collective knowledge. What is it that you notice? > It should have been... "OK, nothing is broken here, nothing for qa@ to do, looks like ssuominen did everything for us." Instead if you insisted on mangling the issue and shoving the policies up in the face, and when you were pointed out the major arches leads have given an exception for stabilizing packages, you didn't apology for the waste of time, instead, you continued with mangling the issue futher, accomplishing nothing but wasting everyones valuable time. - Samuli