From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 065421387FD for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 14:16:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53E37E0A7D; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 14:16:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from virtual.dyc.edu (mail.virtual.dyc.edu [67.222.116.22]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF26E0A6F for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 14:16:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.3.7] (cpe-74-77-145-97.buffalo.res.rr.com [74.77.145.97]) by virtual.dyc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6F1877E000A for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5336D5F3.9060907@opensource.dyc.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:17:23 -0400 From: "Anthony G. Basile" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2014-04-08 References: <53342A5F.70903@gentoo.org> <5336C19C.7020608@opensource.dyc.edu> <5336CA1F.1060008@gentoo.org> <5336CAAD.8050008@gentoo.org> <5336CF6E.9000309@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <5336CF6E.9000309@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 198c4d08-b5f9-475e-944f-ff366dec8e7a X-Archives-Hash: eda234c01c2dfbe4880670b985f658cf On 03/29/2014 09:49 AM, hasufell wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > Anthony G. Basile: >> On 03/29/2014 09:26 AM, hasufell wrote: >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 >>> >>> Anthony G. Basile: >>>> On 03/27/2014 09:40 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> The council will be meeing on April 8, 2014 at 1900 UTC. >>>>> Please bring forward any agenda items you would like >>>>> discussed. >>>>> >>>>> --Tony >>>>> >>>> Okay I'd like to add an agenda item. A policy inspired by bug >>>> #506034. >>>> >>>> Motion: "Significant changes to virtuals are to be discussed >>>> (via mailing list or bugzilla) with all the maintainers and/or >>>> herds which maintain packages those virtuals depend on." >>>> >>>> Discussion: "Like eclasses, changes to virtuals can affect all >>>> the packages which depend on them. Changing existing >>>> virtuals, removing virtuals or adding new ones affect the >>>> packages they depend on. When such a change is proposed, all >>>> maintainers affected need to be included in the discussion." >>>> >>> Sounds like any other reverse-dep. If people don't discuss >>> non-trivial changes (to whatever part of gentoo), then that needs >>> to be fixed, not policies introduced for every single situation >>> that arises. >> >> True, I did think of that, but we do have a policy for eclasses. >> With deeper uses of virtuals, it does not hurt to make the >> reverse-dep issue explicit. >> > > IMO, eclasses are special since they are not really versioned. > Virtuals are regular packages, versioned and with stable and unstable > keywords. And yet we do have many such policies beyond eclasses. For example, in profiles/base/make.conf we have: # Env vars to expand into USE vars. Modifying this requires prior # discussion on gentoo-dev@gentoo.org. USE_EXPAND= There is precedence withing Gentoo for asking that far reaching design changes (eg USE_EXPAND) be discussed on the list. > > Unless you really want to apply this policy on _all_ reverse deps. It is difficult to enumerate _all_. I believe Tom and I have identified two more areas were we should encourage list wide discussion when the consequences by affect others: virtuals and profiles. > > And if people don't follow it, then what? There have been a hundred > situations (including eclasses) that were sufficient to say "stop" to > some people who regularly do undiscussed, non-trivial changes. Until > now, not much has happened about it. I doubt that this policy will > change any of that. If nothing else it raises awareness that we are a community where our changes affect one another. The "enforcement" I would hope for is the respect that we show one another. > > [sarcasm] > But it gives us an impression of progress, at least... and policies > seem to be a trend lately. > [/sarcasm] -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph. D. Chair of Information Technology D'Youville College Buffalo, NY 14201 (716) 829-8197