From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1QsdDr-0000L8-QP for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:07:36 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E33C321C03E; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:07:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8718A21C03A for ; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:07:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.22] (p548DB934.dip.t-dialin.net [84.141.185.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: tommy) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 277EB1B404E for ; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:07:14 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4E47F2A6.6090404@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 18:07:02 +0200 From: Thomas Sachau User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110805 Firefox/5.0 SeaMonkey/2.2 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Council appointed leaders for QA and DevRel References: <4E47AC51.3030201@gentoo.org> <4E47BC79.3000402@gentoo.org> <4E47BE6C.4070109@gentoo.org> <4E47C886.3020602@gentoo.org> <4E47CFE7.7050207@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4E47CFE7.7050207@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.1 OpenPGP: id=211CA2D4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigC20867A9451036D115B74886" X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: b22e76a39d83b586662798ed3e5b7d6d This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigC20867A9451036D115B74886 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Markos Chandras schrieb: > On 08/14/2011 02:07 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: >> Markos Chandras schrieb: >>> On 08/14/2011 01:15 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: >>>> Markos Chandras schrieb: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> This is the first of the items I would like to discuss for the=20 >>>>> next Council agenda (or a later one). >>>>> >>>>> Some time ago, few people proposed to have Council appointed=20 >>>>> leaders for QA and DevRel. >>> >>>> My first question: Why is your proposal restricted to QA and >>>> DevRel? >>> >>> Cause I believe these teams are crucial to the continuity of >>> Gentoo project. >=20 >> How do you weight one project against another one? I see it the other >> way round: QA and DevRel are only important, if there is some issue >> not resolved otherwise. But many other projects are always important, >> since they have to maintain things continuously. While the council >> could still decide, if DevRel or QA are gone (they just take some >> workload away), you wont be able to get the council to e.g. maintain >> our infrastructure, ebuilds or docs. >=20 > 1) If another project slacks, then bad luck for you. Just mask and > remove the ebuilds ( see recent zope thread ). There is nothing we can > do about that. If QA or DevRel slacks, this causes even less work, since they dont even = maintain ebuilds to mask and remove. It may result in less QA fixes or less mediation between deve= lopers, but in any case, where you need a decision, you could always call for the council. Those p= rojects do just some delegated work, which is of course nice, if it comes to the daily work an= d also, because it reduces the work, that needs to be done by the council. But neither is unreplacea= ble and the decisions of both teams can already be checked by the council, so i see no real requir= ement for additional bureaucracy for those 2 specific teams. Either you want to move more control to the council, then it should do th= e checks and votes for all teams or you leave it like now, where the teams do decide themselves. > 2) Infrastructure is a sensitive team, and does not deal with ebuild > maintenance and portage directly. And if infra slacks? Bad luck for you, just mask and remove the hardware?= :-) >>>>> I like the idea because this way the Council can ensure that >>>>> the team is active or either force some activity in case the >>>>> current leader slacks big time. >>> >>>> If there is noone active in a team, noone prevents other devs to >>>> join the team and vote themselves for the lead. So even if there >>>> is no activity, it should be no problem to get activity, if >>>> someone is interested to do the work. >>> Right now, you can't join any of these teams unless a lead approves >>> you. Have a look at gentoo-qa ML. >=20 >> Please re-read my lines. I talked about _noone being active_. The QA >> team is not empty/inactive, neither is DevRel team empty/inactive, so >> this does not apply to the current situation. > Well, clearly we have a different definition for the word "active". If > you think that QA is active then there is no reason for me to try to > convince you for the opposite. Maybe you should first tell me, how you define activity for QA (and DevRe= l)? >>>> If the team is inactive and noone interested, the Council wont be >>>> able to create any activity either, since they cannot force >>>> anyone to do something. >>> You can't just join a dead team and become a lead :). There are >>> some bureaucracy procedures to follow. >=20 >> You cant? who prevents you from doing so? And if there are just some >> procedures to follow, this just means some initial activity/workload >> to do so, but again: If the team is dead, who could prevent you from >> joining it and then becoming the lead? > Existing members, who claim to be active, may prevent you. Remember wha= t > happened last time Patrick tried to resurrect GMW, and all of a sudden,= > Joshua claimed that he can't do that because he wasn't the lead. > Unless I misunderstand your definition for "dead" word. You mean empty > project pages? Or just pages with 14 members and 0 commits/year? I would see a project as "dead", if there is no activity at all, also the= re is a need for activity (like open bugs for an ebuild, which never get processed or no newsletter= sent out at all). I dont mind about asking the council to decide, who can take over a dead = project, if more than one person wants to take it and those people dont get to a consensus. --------------enigC20867A9451036D115B74886 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iJwEAQECAAYFAk5H8q0ACgkQG7kqcTWJkGeqggP9FYMyoarumX84PfGkPIzyXrru lNxeEnR/uEV7L4sRy9Zr+7I5Z9iMhVXhGdiqb805QZjGlEiUE9/LIt8cPoCtPTmP PH+JXoSX6n5Chjd7lLnxXwX7EnrYW5DpcTetC6rAWjV1kcyGsU4xPexogMszkVSt 6ZGEKw0NW243EOFzj+0= =TkvC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigC20867A9451036D115B74886--