From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1QpQ7a-0001GV-LO for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:31:54 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E70BE21C167; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 19:31:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F8E921C165 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 19:31:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwf25 with SMTP id 25so393799wwf.10 for ; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:31:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uowNoOJpVQrAzsMmqnrXVSFOUXN10oEw+vrAkwoMv+Y=; b=TC6EDnuYDhB8YqUHqVkounlNSqTeoipPV5nEZHCu5o3U1y67d5WjFdIh9YnPDGtjdx nc68ddGr13RJWILsVFBCyHGm/8UCWFtsN3XVPMgvT5i32Nhv249AIfko4+PV1taU1dG3 JRlgdd1B6GVjpzHzmwN8+w2SvZWJhACy1CFaQ= Received: by 10.216.68.6 with SMTP id k6mr844504wed.87.1312572692487; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.88.185.147] (wh147a.halls.manchester.ac.uk [130.88.185.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id eo18sm2516457wbb.63.2011.08.05.12.31.30 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Markos Chandras Message-ID: <4E3C44F9.6020302@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:31:05 +0100 From: Markos Chandras User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110721 Thunderbird/5.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Council discuss: overlapping council terms of two years References: <1312307887.2901.2@NeddySeagoon> <4E38B4D9.7020603@gentoo.org> <1312404150.2882.2@NeddySeagoon> <20110804200630.GE4840@comet.ucsd.edu> <1312496361.2864.0@NeddySeagoon> <4E3BC710.6090402@gentoo.org> <20110805104952.GK81662@gentoo.org> <4E3BCD6E.8030101@gentoo.org> <4E3BED69.6060003@gentoo.org> <20110805134412.GC17729@gentoo.org> <4E3BF61F.7050300@gentoo.org> <4E3C1B32.2020105@gentoo.org> <4E3C1EAE.1040604@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: f9a50e7555ae90506483b95bc7d1e350 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 08/05/2011 08:22 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Markos Chandras > wrote: >> Right, exactly what I am saying. A single developer has to put his >> effort to push things forward. Last time I remember something >> similar was when Ben (yngwin) tried to introduce changes and he was >> "forced" to retirement. Awesome. You know very well that if a >> single person tries on his own to change things, he will lose >> motivation sooner or later. > > So, here's the thing. If a huge number of devs are against an idea, > then it is probably best NOT to approve it unless it is just a > matter of bikeshedding. You probably do not remember the case. A lot of people were supporting his ideas. That was not the problem. > > What is the alternative? One guy wants to make a huge change to > Gentoo. Most don't agree. Democratically elected council is thus > unlikely to back it. Instead suppose we have a dictator for the > year or whatever and he happens to support it, so he issues an edict > that the one guy is the prophet for this year. > I am talking about situation that everybody agrees yet there is nobody to step up and move it forward. > Let's look at the whole /usr thread. It started out with lots of > shock and general opposition with one or two guys pushing for a > change. They than brought forward arguments and I'd judge from > recent comments that they won over a good chunk of the dev population > - now we're just haggling about the how and not arguing so much over > to-FHS or not to-FHS. By the time the council is asked to do > anything (if they even need to get involved) there will probably be a > clear majority consensus. That's how you drive change. > I am very interested to see if a solution will ever come up from that thread. /me shuts up and goes back to his corner - -- Regards, Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJOPET4AAoJEPqDWhW0r/LCHz0P/0x6WcMUjPtbXE2RjdeFYlxL vovyQpVrp4mIui9K205pqNLu5DeEbn4QPp/vhMlveQtXDrB+OA+0TjBQQ4+itJXc P+qxTxK+j/XVHJFbnq081B2vVrUdl+JI6x5iFVFtsOPOtC8YhsFhD3q0AheyBjyP gJAFfGUaLLkP/m6RF+LpwyGvhiRQXrwXuVJfT7pearbzs4+A2qKBuvfuW4w0hd/F 8KIig3nXJXuPfAHWrySMjmU7TTuIFlD/GFPryQJEDy622K2ATlApaEBK+jpEl/8k qKMp0c66zr37eOHCeFV4n0F/h46shhafxzjHNmsJ8/wbY6/yWEndax5dpOhUYuOC i7hIXnv/A8s4Dy6QRzFftrew5VZIFbIJrAKToUaTuDSvXKw0b2K5ADrT5pdIdAhh YEQzgdVvl9ejmTE+nHGHpre6FNcYi/DCBd2h3KYQxKe0xU0+2xZ7PrXyH94w2u9b 7yjmyBNLYBB/MOJf+ZaZv6PZWACyENJTAnCfvoIH6Ob8tq7nK9hjqzKh0V2VMKv4 My42gBjEFX0KTp2bFVVM4db88YHfWsiu5JnYjUg3hvi41BF3AAhvtfFMX+CQpa49 M5ucIBQt/jl90KzWk77PwVAmY/tVkOmFb9QEfRyA2QwCr4/694XUMCi1x1564N8C xEcvm+qRqF1fmS23YuP1 =1p25 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----