[gentoo-project] Usage of our mailing lists - to cross post or not?

[gentoo-project] Usage of our mailing lists - to cross post or not?

[Petteri Räty]

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http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-council/msg_e6f300a0a2c570cfe2d5780c205a5574.xml

My understanding of how our mailing lists are structured is that there's
either an on topic mailing list or then a general one like gentoo-dev or
gentoo-project. So this means that generally a message should only be
sent to a single mailing list. If you want to all developers to see the
post then use gentoo-dev-announce as documented here:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?full=1

I propose we add a statement to our list FAQ to ban cross posting the
reason being that it leads to fragmentation of the thread when some
people reply on one list and some on the other (and they aren't required
to be subscribed to both). If agreed then I'll also send a post to
gentoo-dev-announce describing the outcome. If there's no clear majority
then I'll put this on the council agenda.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-project] Usage of our mailing lists - to cross post or not?

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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On 18-07-2010 20:26, Petteri Räty wrote:
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-council/msg_e6f300a0a2c570cfe2d5780c205a5574.xml
> 
> My understanding of how our mailing lists are structured is that there's
> either an on topic mailing list or then a general one like gentoo-dev or
> gentoo-project. So this means that generally a message should only be
> sent to a single mailing list. If you want to all developers to see the
> post then use gentoo-dev-announce as documented here:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?full=1
> 
> I propose we add a statement to our list FAQ to ban cross posting the
> reason being that it leads to fragmentation of the thread when some
> people reply on one list and some on the other (and they aren't required
> to be subscribed to both). If agreed then I'll also send a post to
> gentoo-dev-announce describing the outcome. If there's no clear majority
> then I'll put this on the council agenda.

I can live with the cross-posting, in particular if it makes easier to
find an old thread - if the council meeting threads were sent to both
gentoo-council and gentoo-dev, it would certainly be easier to find it
on gentoo-council archives than gentoo-dev's. The cross-posting may also
be used to promote a discussion in a smaller ml, such as gentoo-council,
and to inform the wider audience in a general ml, such as gentoo-dev, of
decisions or important arguments in a discussion.
In any case, if people prefer to ban cross-posting, I can also live with
it. If we go down this route, then council issues, such as the agenda
for the meetings, should probably be discussed in the gentoo-dev ml to
ensure a wider audience.

> Regards,
> Petteri
> 

- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections
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Re: [gentoo-project] Usage of our mailing lists - to cross post or not?

[Richard Freeman]

On 07/18/2010 06:03 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> On 18-07-2010 20:26, Petteri Räty wrote:
>> I propose we add a statement to our list FAQ to ban cross posting the
>> reason being that it leads to fragmentation of the thread when some
>> people reply on one list and some on the other (and they aren't required
>> to be subscribed to both).

++

>
> I can live with the cross-posting, in particular if it makes easier to
> find an old thread - if the council meeting threads were sent to both
> gentoo-council and gentoo-dev, it would certainly be easier to find it
> on gentoo-council archives than gentoo-dev's.

Why not just post it on gentoo-council?  Anybody interested in the 
discussion could participate there.  The first message in the thread 
could of course be posted to -dev-announce with follow-ups to the proper 
list.

I've been reading this discussion now in three different lists, 
illustrating the fragmentation problem.

For those who suggest a better mail reader - I'm all ears.  My 
requirements apparently are:

1.  GUI - one that works with a mouse.
2.  Basic editing functionality (spell check, re-wrapping, etc), with 
all functions accessible via the GUI.
3.  Handles threads split across two different lists with not all 
replies being cross-posted to all lists, turning them into a cohesive 
discussion.
4.  Otherwise, doesn't mix up stuff from multiple lists.
5.  Does all of this in spite of the fact that procmail is set to 
mercilessly destroy anything with a duplicate message ID before the mail 
client even sees it.  Alternatively, mail client must handle when I get 
the same email 5 times via 5 different email addresses that were all 
CC'ed so that procmail doesn't have to take care of it.

Of course, not cross-posting like mad lets me cross off #3 and #5, 
meaning that just about anything out there works.

I'm not aware of a mail reader that meets these requirements...  Frankly 
I'd be happy to just follow the discussion on gmane except that even 
most news readers can't handle this sort of mess.

If devs want to follow what the council is doing, they should subscribe 
to -council.  If devs want to have input on big policy changes that 
aren't strictly coding related they can follow -project.  Of course, no 
matter what lists they follow the important stuff can go on 
-dev-announce first.

Just my two cents...  Obviously I've been putting up with this sort of 
thing for years, so this is hardly going to be the thing that drives me 
over the edge...  :)

Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Usage of our mailing lists - to cross post or not?

[Angelo Arrifano]

On 19-07-2010 04:34, Richard Freeman wrote:
> On 07/18/2010 06:03 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
>> On 18-07-2010 20:26, Petteri Räty wrote:
>>> I propose we add a statement to our list FAQ to ban cross posting the
>>> reason being that it leads to fragmentation of the thread when some
>>> people reply on one list and some on the other (and they aren't required
>>> to be subscribed to both).
> 
> ++
> 
>>
>> I can live with the cross-posting, in particular if it makes easier to
>> find an old thread - if the council meeting threads were sent to both
>> gentoo-council and gentoo-dev, it would certainly be easier to find it
>> on gentoo-council archives than gentoo-dev's.
> 
> Why not just post it on gentoo-council?  Anybody interested in the
> discussion could participate there.  The first message in the thread
> could of course be posted to -dev-announce with follow-ups to the proper
> list.
> 
> I've been reading this discussion now in three different lists,
> illustrating the fragmentation problem.
> 
> For those who suggest a better mail reader - I'm all ears.  My
> requirements apparently are:
> 
> 1.  GUI - one that works with a mouse.
> 2.  Basic editing functionality (spell check, re-wrapping, etc), with
> all functions accessible via the GUI.
> 3.  Handles threads split across two different lists with not all
> replies being cross-posted to all lists, turning them into a cohesive
> discussion.
> 4.  Otherwise, doesn't mix up stuff from multiple lists.
> 5.  Does all of this in spite of the fact that procmail is set to
> mercilessly destroy anything with a duplicate message ID before the mail
> client even sees it.  Alternatively, mail client must handle when I get
> the same email 5 times via 5 different email addresses that were all
> CC'ed so that procmail doesn't have to take care of it.
> 
> Of course, not cross-posting like mad lets me cross off #3 and #5,
> meaning that just about anything out there works.
> 
> I'm not aware of a mail reader that meets these requirements...  Frankly
> I'd be happy to just follow the discussion on gmane except that even
> most news readers can't handle this sort of mess.

Thunderbird does that for me, just enable threaded view on your inbox.
It is very close to gmame-style email reading.

Just 2 cents.
- Angelo
> 
> If devs want to follow what the council is doing, they should subscribe
> to -council.  If devs want to have input on big policy changes that
> aren't strictly coding related they can follow -project.  Of course, no
> matter what lists they follow the important stuff can go on
> -dev-announce first.
> 
> Just my two cents...  Obviously I've been putting up with this sort of
> thing for years, so this is hardly going to be the thing that drives me
> over the edge...  :)
> 
> Rich
> 

Re: [gentoo-project] Usage of our mailing lists - to cross post or not?

[Richard Freeman]

On 07/19/2010 03:47 PM, Angelo Arrifano wrote:
> On 19-07-2010 04:34, Richard Freeman wrote:
>> 3.  Handles threads split across two different lists with not all
>> replies being cross-posted to all lists, turning them into a cohesive
>> discussion.
>
> Thunderbird does that for me, just enable threaded view on your inbox.
> It is very close to gmame-style email reading.
>

I already use this.  The problem is that different lists are in 
different folders (procmail filtering), and that is how I want it, 
except when people start mixing threads across two lists I'd like to see 
them together.

Hey, I think it is an awfully tall order, but apparently others feel 
that email clients should handle this gracefully.  That's why it would 
be nice just to keep each discussion in the right place...

Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Usage of our mailing lists - to cross post or not?

[Peter Volkov]

В Вск, 18/07/2010 в 23:26 +0300, Petteri Räty пишет:
> I propose we add a statement to our list FAQ to ban cross posting 

/me is tired reading same mails in different mailboxes so I'm all for
this addition.

-- 
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-project] Usage of our mailing lists - to cross post or not?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 07/22/2010 11:27 PM, Peter Volkov wrote:
> В Вск, 18/07/2010 в 23:26 +0300, Petteri Räty пишет:
>> I propose we add a statement to our list FAQ to ban cross posting 
> 
> /me is tired reading same mails in different mailboxes so I'm all for
> this addition.
> 

Seems there is no opposition to opened
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=329801

Regards,
Petteri


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