[gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Denis Dupeyron]

Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
except the council. Should we maintain this exception?

How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
to the newly elected council members?

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Markos Chandras]

On Sunday 18 April 2010 02:49:26 Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
> except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
> 
> How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
> to the newly elected council members?
Well, my opinion is well-known but I will post it here as well.

Definitely YES. Each project requires a lead who coordinates, defines a clear 
path to follow and inspire the rest of the members. 
Council should have one too
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
> except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
>
> How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
> to the newly elected council members?
>

What role will a council lead play? Will the role be similar to the
speaker of the house (ie, only manage the meetings and cast the
tie-breaking vote), or more like the head of the cabinet of ministers
(take the final decision based on input from other members)?


-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Markos Chandras]

On Sunday 18 April 2010 12:23:22 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
> > except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
> > 
> > How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
> > to the newly elected council members?
> 
>, or more like the head of the cabinet of ministers
> (take the final decision based on input from other members)?
This sounds like a "Gentoo Leader" role and not just for the council 
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Richard Freeman]

On 04/18/2010 06:54 AM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Sunday 18 April 2010 12:23:22 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Denis Dupeyron<calchan@gentoo.org>  wrote:
>>> Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
>>> except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
>>>
>>> How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
>>> to the newly elected council members?
>>
>> , or more like the head of the cabinet of ministers
>> (take the final decision based on input from other members)?
> This sounds like a "Gentoo Leader" role and not just for the council

I'm fine with the council appointing a leader from within, or not, at 
its own discretion (ie write it up that way).  Then the circumstances of 
the moment will dictate how this is handled.

To be binding any non-emergency decision must still be ratified by the 
council.  That's how parliamentary systems work anyway as I understand it.

As far as "Gentoo Leader" goes - I'll address that in a different thread.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Denis Dupeyron]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Richard Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> As far as "Gentoo Leader" goes - I'll address that in a different thread.

Please do so in this one to avoid thread scattering. I think it's
related enough that it is interesting to discuss those two ideas in
the same place.

Denis.

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Richard Freeman]

On 04/18/2010 07:09 PM, Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Richard Freeman<rich0@gentoo.org>  wrote:
>> As far as "Gentoo Leader" goes - I'll address that in a different thread.
>
> Please do so in this one to avoid thread scattering. I think it's
> related enough that it is interesting to discuss those two ideas in
> the same place.
>

Already did so in the existing thread "Do we want to make changes to the 
role of the council?"

I guess I wasn't explicit about it.  I see the council as being the 
overall "leader" of Gentoo.  If they want to appoint a PM to write 
legislation (and have people take tentative action pending 
ratification), that is perfectly fine.  However, I don't think the 
council can completely delegate its authority, and I don't think Gentoo 
needs a benevolent dictator.

Now, if some billionare wants to pull a Shuttleworth and hire a bunch of 
people to work on Gentoo, then of course he can dictate what they work 
on, and that will give such a person a de-facto position of power in the 
distro.  However, it would be a benevolent power, and one which they are 
in fact paying for.  However, I don't think that in an all volunteer 
effort that the benevolent dictator bit works all that well.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/18/2010 12:23 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
>> except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
>>
>> How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
>> to the newly elected council members?
>>
> 
> What role will a council lead play? Will the role be similar to the
> speaker of the house (ie, only manage the meetings and cast the
> tie-breaking vote), or more like the head of the cabinet of ministers
> (take the final decision based on input from other members)?
> 

Having someone dedicated in charge of agendas and charing meetings is
useful at least.

Regards,
Petteri




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Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 04/18/2010 12:23 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
>>> except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
>>>
>>> How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
>>> to the newly elected council members?
>>>
>>
>> What role will a council lead play? Will the role be similar to the
>> speaker of the house (ie, only manage the meetings and cast the
>> tie-breaking vote), or more like the head of the cabinet of ministers
>> (take the final decision based on input from other members)?
>>
>
> Having someone dedicated in charge of agendas and charing meetings is
> useful at least.
>

Didn't we have a secretary in charge of agendas once? And well,
chairing of meetings could simply be rotated amongst the council
members.

-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/18/2010 03:45 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On 04/18/2010 12:23 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>>> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>> Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
>>>> except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
>>>>
>>>> How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
>>>> to the newly elected council members?
>>>>
>>>
>>> What role will a council lead play? Will the role be similar to the
>>> speaker of the house (ie, only manage the meetings and cast the
>>> tie-breaking vote), or more like the head of the cabinet of ministers
>>> (take the final decision based on input from other members)?
>>>
>>
>> Having someone dedicated in charge of agendas and charing meetings is
>> useful at least.
>>
> 
> Didn't we have a secretary in charge of agendas once? And well,
> chairing of meetings could simply be rotated amongst the council
> members.
> 

The person in charge can still delegate to a secretary. The point is he
would make sure to remind and replace him if the secretary goes MIA.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 04/18/2010 03:45 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>> Didn't we have a secretary in charge of agendas once? And well,
>> chairing of meetings could simply be rotated amongst the council
>> members.
>>
>
> The person in charge can still delegate to a secretary. The point is he
> would make sure to remind and replace him if the secretary goes MIA.
>

Alright. So if the distinction is purely administrative, and has
nothing to do with new powers; there should be no need for a separate
election for the lead. The council members should elect one amongst
themselves (or rotate, or whatever).


-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Roy Bamford]

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On 2010.04.18 00:49, Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
> except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
> 
> How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
> to the newly elected council members?
> 
Team,

The council needs a chairman and a secretary. 

It does not matter if they are rotating positions or elected by the 
council. The chairman must be a member of the council, the secretary 
can be anyone capable of discharging the duties of the post. They need 
not be a dev at all.

The main point is to prevent the waste of time at the start of the 
meeting working out who is logging, posting the summary and who is 
chairing.

If other 'officer' roles would help to discharge the business of the 
council, the council should be free to appoint them.

-- 
Regards,

Roy Bamford
(Neddyseagoon) a member of
gentoo-ops
forum-mods
trustees


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Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Thomas Anderson]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:59:51PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
> On 2010.04.18 00:49, Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> > Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
> > except the council. Should we maintain this exception?
> > 
> > How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
> > to the newly elected council members?
> > 
> Team,
> 
> The council needs a chairman and a secretary. 
> 
> It does not matter if they are rotating positions or elected by the 
> council. The chairman must be a member of the council, the secretary 
> can be anyone capable of discharging the duties of the post. They need 
> not be a dev at all.
> 
> The main point is to prevent the waste of time at the start of the 
> meeting working out who is logging, posting the summary and who is 
> chairing.
> 
> If other 'officer' roles would help to discharge the business of the 
> council, the council should be free to appoint them.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Roy Bamford
> (Neddyseagoon) a member of
> gentoo-ops
> forum-mods
> trustees
> 

I strongly agree with this. I think it also cannot be emphasized enough that the
secretary simply cannot chair the meetings(unless the secretary is a council
member). This is because the secretary is not elected and, from my experience
chairing meetings anyway, would inneffectually keep the council on-topic and
moving through the agenda.

Pretty much anything else can be assigned to the secretary however.


-- 
---------
~Thomas Anderson~
---------

Re: [gentoo-project] [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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On 17-04-2010 23:49, Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> Does the council need a lead? All top-level projects have a lead
> except the council. Should we maintain this exception?

What do we mean by a council lead? If we're talking about someone to
oversee their meetings, then I see no problem with it. If we're talking
about a Gentoo Lead, then I'm against that as I don't want to ever see
the council reduced to a single person body - there are some advantages
to collective bodies. One of them is the requirement for people to talk
and to be able to generate a consensus.

> How do we elect a lead? Do the developers do it or should it be left
> to the newly elected council members?

As stated above, I think we should have a collective body. Therefore to
choose someone to oversee meetings should be a council decision -
including the choice to not have someone overseeing the meetings.


- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections
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[gentoo-project] Re: [GLEP 39 overhaul] Does the council need a lead?

[Denis Dupeyron]

Summary for this topic. Again a list of voting propositions to be
discussed during the meeting.

 - Unlike other projects the council does not need a lead.

 - The council needs a lead who will take charge of coordinating
council actions and act as a speaker, secretary, chairman, etc.. (or
will be responsible for finding somebody to execute these tasks), and
will be the one to blame in case of them not being executed properly.

 - Same as above and the council lead gets an additional vote when
needing to break ties.

 - The council needs a lead who will also act as community/distro
leader. What exactly that could mean needs to be defined.

Separate decision (which could depend on the result of the previous vote):

 - The council lead is elected by the newly elected members. The
council members can decide to elect a new lead at any time (in case of
away or slacking or else).

 - The council lead is elected by the developer community. How
exactly? And how does the community replace the lead in case (s)he
performs poorly or else?

Denis.