From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DEF61382C5 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 01:14:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D966BE0B58; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 01:14:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from avasout05.plus.net (avasout05.plus.net [84.93.230.250]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78E5FE0B4B for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 01:14:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([212.159.46.162]) by smtp with ESMTP id 3AWnfckV21fhE3AWof50Kf; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 02:14:28 +0100 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=J9KEEjvS c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=RuViaDnnNG9rfPLW4VJocg==:117 a=RuViaDnnNG9rfPLW4VJocg==:17 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=7mOBRU54AAAA:8 a=QCrE5xjs5tHOjAS__MQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=tOGw5NrFbmvVEjnxOFcA:9 a=ONNS8QRKHyMA:10 a=wa9RWnbW_A1YIeRBVszw:22 Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-04-08 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <87muyt9njh.fsf@gentoo.org> <87a7ulktqz.fsf@gentoo.org> From: "M. J. Everitt" Openpgp: id=BA266E0525CFAB101523351B4C30334F93C22371 Message-ID: <480d504e-1362-d79d-058c-96c10162132d@iee.org> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 02:14:20 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YCtVGSm83F6WvYoMeay3MsFPkJV8Kzkny" X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfPB+1wBsJR7oBxczhLqKO3WsmzzFEqjAMkms0OM0kE9u0jS8+AYJDRw0ptNpYYbBoZ5GsOK+7kzDwGo6HPhLi6YOflnI6JJTEH429BcDAVvGqDm+mfHg Qe24E8RHjtbzcF8gthJimb9R4kH4YabwQZW9WC+OWZuGHk5AvLlARv70LpXbMgvXP9hQxLzGCsqmQw== X-Archives-Salt: c1e3bed8-64b5-46e4-9421-c1a61c4c093e X-Archives-Hash: 78eda4c668a44e2842d1a6cf1f2a97c8 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --YCtVGSm83F6WvYoMeay3MsFPkJV8Kzkny Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="QK3dpgPSHtYITB64Myl17EukTnhxiqC0j"; protected-headers="v1" From: "M. J. Everitt" To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <480d504e-1362-d79d-058c-96c10162132d@iee.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-04-08 References: <87muyt9njh.fsf@gentoo.org> <87a7ulktqz.fsf@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --QK3dpgPSHtYITB64Myl17EukTnhxiqC0j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-GB On 03/04/18 02:01, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Matthias Maier wrot= e: >> - overruling council (and comrel?) decisions with a 2:1 majority >> > While I could see this making sense for most Council/QA decisions, I'm > skeptical of how this could work for Comrel, given that nobody would > have anything to go off of, unless we made these matters public. > > I could see it possibly working if we made it clear that there is no > expectation of privacy for anybody bringing a complaint, and that the > entire matter would be made public if the accused wished to appeal it > to a general resolution. Then it would be up to the person who was > subject to discipline to allow a general vote. If they did not allow > this, then the Council (or Comrel, if no appeal) would have the final > say and it could not be appealed. If they did allow this, then the > entire record would be made public and available for a general vote. > The accused would have full access to the record before deciding > whether to make it public, so there would be no surprises. > > I'm not a super-big fan of this, but I see it as the only reasonable > way to let Comrel decisions turn into a general resolution. Otherwise > people basically have to vote blind. > > On the flip side, it would let the accused leave quietly with no > public defamation/etc if they so wished, but in doing so they wouldn't > really have much room to complain about the process being closed, > since they were the one who decided to keep it that way. On the other > hand, if they insisted on a public proceeding then everybody can > decide for themselves what is appropriate. > > The main downside is that we'd need to make it clear to anybody > issuing a complaint that they would not get a say in whether what they > submit was shared with the accused or the public. Otherwise we would > be taking that decision out of the accused's hands, and it basically > defeats the point in having this sort of appeal available. This might > potentially have a chilling effect on anybody who might want to bring > a complaint, since it could become public if the accused so desired. > Either way I think things like this are best made clear up-front so > there are no surprises. > Pardon my unwanted opinion, but that sounds like a seriously verbose 'yes' .. or at least firm 'maybe' ... --QK3dpgPSHtYITB64Myl17EukTnhxiqC0j-- --YCtVGSm83F6WvYoMeay3MsFPkJV8Kzkny Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJawtVwAAoJEGPnxnn01DHdnbQP/1OlTLNaMNgvb4kpFiSVwaNh 0W+2cuNMH4rD+EwTvqUgHLLh3doxeoOZD0Wq8A4+U1Yz3sWxbDa2wuW9Wtk1/sKZ LtXe30wh0Mw64+JrfsQT8FK5glRTT/ynzNSrYVrNKvB/gkOlpV8dWFxxMWTYsCJW O/y1ZgAwXFJZdkj8qK8bGFxZ/QAw8vb9HmTKSPGlkNEOmjmYFugKDyRywQ3Hl0gL yUbIFegF0BNO0JJgroS8hDqVGfYGunPMhOmBV6MS/9Fajqsu4c7fmCmNYTSVWUeU BOen/tOUS4fs0huYt5R73MnjyF4+O7uMdN6icfQYIu94rxPhSnkiEl1ZX96H5ZdV 3iopUXYRjd6eSc0Ko+zENZ58niAdvkiuAp+ljxZLaTrm8fWWmLCtY+WnhEywhq2G FB8anrXMJEfjZyzAfG7oE/XBNPcMayj031UHrHimKvTUoEWJ+zMvhnGFFbrHeYfI aqtU+bE4wHklu/FmKrvPdw3CABs7J79qb55JktxJ2cnSkk69dDSataRbhr0ZP/5f ZztJLNdzXTlH/vSG/SpyeLvKjKv/CYws49aAwWkQsv+Xm7+N+JyT4g7vcZmtUw2V T970Xlx/Ca8XeAvVjl6HAqrSuqnoDDaFCqhMCbqEb+skreQD68miVzGKyRjVsRfi h/FDq9tBPy2ICOS7igK7 =WiAX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YCtVGSm83F6WvYoMeay3MsFPkJV8Kzkny--