From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JPgby-000639-PP for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:06:59 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE76BE0928; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:06:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4951BE0928 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:06:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id j3so1039131ugf.49 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:06:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uosg6Wcx7GrPCAhzfOLrI6AORjiYjODBosD5mlaeebQ=; b=eTmKUepSTeaYxSzBXdPGiCpAdTgmfiDSoOCJ3FfhLABYetjhU2Aw0ZqIiZT4IPJFUqMEHXRFEgCsaYsG834e8hlu/tHvTVdRMGPJJok47GqjnXrAYyJRaghxWj1EfR3LQiMctpC1/B35+CAGRtu2pbNwJKMAuaRfbH20epZM/Do= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=O4ni2ENF9cynwU+dBPTOBbuCYrNPsSqHeZ6Dy2NcYQ99+WMV7W5neD0bJG6VDBUoHS+d7kFO3MpyYBJlf8ooBTFk0l2lJT/0bbY24v/ckpvTnLSG8zLL7RTA2/see16j6fR4gbpayKO7WnB5hAFLamISgMb+Ckkb3DMqOxranms= Received: by 10.66.233.14 with SMTP id f14mr3432715ugh.84.1203005216177; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:06:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.36? ( [81.79.219.236]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 24sm15208029ugf.22.2008.02.14.08.06.54 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:06:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B4671C.3080604@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:06:52 +0000 From: George Prowse User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Long , gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-nfp] Re: How to improve the trustees References: <1202046556l.2718l.0l@spike> <47A5F083.8020605@liquidustech.com> <1202064418l.3242l.0l@spike> <47A6211F.4000104@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 20c9b27d-8f75-4cd7-9e8f-5522d94f9b2b X-Archives-Hash: ae675fca1afa2a7d35a143db9deaad5d Steve Long wrote: > George Prowse wrote: >> Roy Bamford wrote: >>> On 2008.02.03 16:49, Matthew Summers wrote: >>>> Roy Bamford wrote: >>>>> Many new users come to gentoo as their first Linux. Many of them >>>>> are poorly informed about both Linux and Gentoo - I don't know how >>>>> to reach this group *before* they start asking for help in #gentoo >>>>> and on the forums. Thats the sort problem we have to solve. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Roy, >>>> >>>> Towards a solution to this particular issue above, I suggest Gentoo >>>> provides a documentation project (possibly) entitled "Learning Linux >>>> with Gentoo". Within this we could easily address many issues faced >>>> by new Linux/Gentoo users. > >>>> As always, I offer my assistance/support in the aforementioned >>>> endeavor. >>>> >>> Matthew, >>> >>> I think this is a good idea. However, one of the issues is that a body >>> of new users is not even aware of the existance of the current >>> documentation. >>> >>> e.g. How to head off questions like "I've just started the minimal CD >>> to install Gentoo but all I get is a black screen with some text at the >>> bottom. Where do I click to install Gentoo?" >>> >>> I'm not 100% sure it wasn't a troll but as this represents a class of >>> problems seen on the forums, I'm sure that some are genuine. >>> >> Maybe a quick Q&A for newcomers is needed? A kind of precis of what >> there already is with links to the longer documents? >> > I have to say all this sounds like lowering the bar a little too far. While > I am all for introducing newbs to Gentoo (in fact I've just got a > 67-year-old and his wife, who don't know computers at all, hooked on Gentoo > KDE;) that's not the same as them learning to install and administer a > Genoo Linux system. > > I'd favour a "Why Gentoo Is Not For You" page, done as politely and > respectfully as we can, pointing out that some basic *nix knowledge, > including at the CLI, is pretty much mandatory for someone to be able to > maintain a Gentoo box properly. (I'm not interested in the corner-cases > where someone did actually manage to learn Linux on Gentoo first; sometimes > exceptions prove rules.) This is not to be elitist: it's simply so that > distros like Mandriva or Ubuntu, which /are/ setup for computing newbs, can > fulfil that part of the learning curve. > > I don't think Gentoo could ever be at that stage until and unless it has the > equivalent of the Mandrake Control Centre. #gentoo-guis is working towards > that imo, so join there and help out if you want to make Gentoo "just > work". himerge is really lush, if a bit tricky to install; insns at: > http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Himerge > > I disagree, if you tell people what is needed to administer a Gentoo system then they may choose an easier distro but will do so with an informed opinion. Anyway, Gentoo can be picked up within a few hours so it's not exactly that advanced, the configs and portage are the only 2 things they really need to understand. -- gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list