From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JEaLC-0000CR-Vh for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 01:11:47 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1036CE08A1; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 01:11:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.231]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD7F2E08A1 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 01:11:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h30so3605980wxd.10 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:11:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=RZcn0mKjhet3qhdsDJY43ftuC98kgrAaY2oRKuh4M+A=; b=iDjYz0RqmOk5VqcMjjgaF5v5EMNh4A/TePvYImAIvjgEeNPDjsVpQNLNwlV4orx6F9H1fdOqn+0/1E7O0FOVIB1la1ZtBE4bdNsZ4zzREMxn/bpH9ifXgPL86d3XeqGg25ufY/whxEiv+pFg9PMYeh+XRqQYm78Lt9JJBS/lAE4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=somkHStompbRmOBB2Q8OP4NJ4TiZb31vxfkOqp1fTdCLGW6aeG05AF6tuqanlQtV3Q5g4qsC8CCs8OliTTqL4pbbO9JQjMy0a0tzvWxgqSHq1eQ+MY+WTpczQUepiWKHElKL0xHdHsC6TVWu0Kj73BPZPkx0E7e1UrRjWvoceAk= Received: by 10.150.98.18 with SMTP id v18mr2716601ybb.47.1200359505453; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:11:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.124.6 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:11:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <42ebd5dc0801141711m30bc22bv2721d86d81ae4990@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:11:45 +0100 From: "Dominik Riva" To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-project] A proposal to get out of this mess Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4904_30927275.1200359505450" X-Archives-Salt: c8b17d90-0849-4a08-92db-d81d2efb1a6c X-Archives-Hash: e681a0b66756ee2b74db90f87ccfc777 ------=_Part_4904_30927275.1200359505450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Gentoo-Project, Let me first introduce myself to you. I am known in the forum as Slalomsk8er and I am the one that started http://gentoo-wiki.com/Problems_at_Gentoo because I believe documenting is better then whining. Besides that, I am a webmaster and server administrator for a living. If you know the Swiss political system you will soon understand why this proposal comes to you from Switzerland. Now to the Problem at hand: This organisation is not able to do any thing then producing code at the moment and this is what produced that mess. The offer from drobbins and the community that wants you by a big 90% to take him by his offer. The developers that don't like his offer because of his style to handle volunteers that don't share his point of view. So what to do: Decline his offer! Forget the Foundation - it is as dead as it can get legal. (how long can Gentoo wait till the assets get lost?) Let the community vote on a constitution for the council. (One from the developers and as much others that have a substancial backing from the community. In Switzerland we normally can vote for 2 to 3 versions of a "hot iron" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum#Switzerland) A new council of 5 persons gets voted that stands under the rules of the new Gentoo constitution by the community at large. (Yes they will vote drobbins in if the likes to accept his nomination in the light of the new rules) Why I think this drastic steps are needed: Gentleman, you screwed big time and the community is pissed! The Gentoo-Project at large lost a lot of trust and credit in the eyes of the community. Hell, I would not even trust a Gentoo-Foundation trustee to feed my pet snails while I am on a vacation! The community will backup the drobbins that the active developers and some forum veterans that spoke at http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321.html don't want back in charge for what sounds like good reasons. The current situation could, if all goes wrong, lead to a fork. I believe with my knowledge of Gentoo and considering the nature of the Portage-Tree at the heart of this distribution, that this could be the doom for both forks. I have a vivid fantasy and it shows me dropped architectures, invisibility at distrowatch and a dwindling user count. And I don't share the opinion of AllenJB that: If the users leave, there's still the developers and live goes on at Gentoo. New developers need to come from somewhere and fast, as it looks like most developers leave after ~2 years. And the nature of Gentoo's Portage has it that every ebuild wants his maintainer and they are called developers. One last thing in my own interest: Please fill in the gaps at http://gentoo-wiki.com/Problems_at_Gentoo with your internal knowledge. The community needs all information's it can get if it has to vote. This geeks want to know that what they do to there beloved distribution is the right thing to do. Regards, Dominik Riva ------=_Part_4904_30927275.1200359505450 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Gentoo-Project,

Let me first introduce myself to you.

I am known in the forum as Slalomsk8er and I am the one that started http://gentoo-wiki.com/Problems_at_Gentoo
because I believe documenting is better then whining. Besides that, I am a webmaster and server administrator for a living. If you know the Swiss political system you will soon understand why this proposal comes to you from Switzerland.

Now to the Problem at hand:

This organisation is not able to do any thing then producing code at the moment and this is what produced that mess.

The offer from drobbins and the community that wants you by a big 90% to take him by his offer.

The developers that don't like his offer because of his style to handle volunteers that don't share his point of view.


So what to do:

Decline his offer!

Forget the Foundation - it is as dead as it can get legal. (how long can Gentoo wait till the assets get lost?)

Let the community vote on a constitution for the council. (One from the developers and as much others that have a substancial backing from the community. In Switzerland we normally can vote for 2 to 3 versions of a "hot iron" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum#Switzerland)

A new council of 5 persons gets voted that stands under the rules of the new Gentoo constitution by the community at large.
(Yes they will vote drobbins in if the likes to accept his nomination in the light of the new rules)


Why I think this drastic steps are needed:

Gentleman, you screwed big time and the community is pissed!

The Gentoo-Project at large lost a lot of trust and credit in the eyes of the community.

Hell, I would not even trust a Gentoo-Foundation trustee to feed my pet snails while I am on a vacation!

The community will backup the drobbins that the active developers and some forum veterans that spoke at http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321.html don't want back in charge for what sounds like good reasons.

The current situation could, if all goes wrong, lead to a fork. I believe with my knowledge of Gentoo and considering the nature of the Portage-Tree at the heart of this distribution, that this could be the doom for both forks. I have a vivid fantasy and it shows me dropped architectures, invisibility at distrowatch and a dwindling user count. And I don't share the opinion of AllenJB that: If the users leave, there's still the developers and live goes on at Gentoo.
New developers need to come from somewhere and fast, as it looks like most developers leave after ~2 years.
And the nature of Gentoo's Portage has it that every ebuild wants his maintainer and they are called developers.


One last thing in my own interest:

Please fill in the gaps at http://gentoo-wiki.com/Problems_at_Gentoo with your internal knowledge.
The community needs all information's it can get if it has to vote. This geeks want to know that what they do to there beloved distribution is the right thing to do.


Regards, Dominik Riva
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