From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JGb5b-0005jL-U4 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:24:00 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 57182E0808; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:23:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.176]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46F2E080A for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:23:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so3077895wah.10 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:23:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=a+GHj89DqmfKuKDNsepxkycjZIc+3I/OYlvBuLg7Ub0=; b=eVPTQ+qX6AScAkCG05uilZiU5UeO0YHfVQqWyfiXRa014CVmsQQYAdsRc0M1iDxPh3QglZx1OXvWAXXQPzgbtIayKtONBVMBBxAR8gVKac4fRbV/xgMVwRBRb64pO6xXhJ8R7dKSHEmHPD8kh2bxXyRpcLG9Dg0MscH9ltJiy/Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RZdUR6MAgWvqnhFQcsegnpez4vv6Hgqq9JjsMV3rjLqpRqZ9r8m9l8CE7/br/nrTjEhW+j6U701yHZqEWffsJlrVRWRy+XHXn8ot1d3Lhyi1+LxExNgl1gHU4H7JdGPYJH9kAkI3uejrxOXHbu6OuAKT98ZreeMb0xxHY8tnBEs= Received: by 10.114.178.1 with SMTP id a1mr3974266waf.135.1200839034790; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.109.3 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:23:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <411a9f890801200623o32beb65bva1ac54b534359c36@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:23:54 +0200 From: "Daniel Butzu" To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Re: A proposal to get out of this mess In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <42ebd5dc0801141711m30bc22bv2721d86d81ae4990@mail.gmail.com> <478C8596.80005@gmail.com> <42ebd5dc0801150329g785478a5h7c95500d1de1dda6@mail.gmail.com> <20080115125109.13145wo79hytzfis@www2.mailstation.de> <42ebd5dc0801150505y4a355a7cx59d5ae178926d8f2@mail.gmail.com> <20080115141517.79027d1wf1obnkg8@www2.mailstation.de> <42ebd5dc0801150538oee57010g5947baee582b56fa@mail.gmail.com> <411a9f890801191507s1e845699t2e4321b6961667d6@mail.gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: 6efe3981-7398-4e4a-bb22-e799903d8d9d X-Archives-Hash: 91742b774f22767ae09f991b8967b5b0 On 1/20/08, Steve Long wrote: > Daniel Butzu wrote: > > > On 1/19/08, Steve Long wrote: > > > >> For the record: I'd still like drobbins involved, but I don't think his > >> terms were at all reasonable, and the way he went about it was > >> reprehensible imo. It was designed to cause the furore it did, and only > >> makes me give credence to the argument that much of the negative press on > >> distrowatch has come from an associate of his. It was a totally political > >> move, and not at all motivated by concern for Gentoo afaic. If he cared > >> that much, he'd have approached Mr Goodyear privately or on the nfp list > >> if he wanted to be "open". Not put everyone through all this stress. > >> > > Maybe. However, since it caused the furore it did it seems that a lot > > of users were unsatisfied. > > >> Users used to feel just as excluded when drobbins was in charge > There appears to be some myth going round that everything was sweetness and > light back in those days; it's not true, and further the distro was an > absolute pig to maintain: > "I used Gentoo when it was version 0.7, which was omg > broken. Packages were added to portage and this would be stable, that would > not compile at all. Then you had to re-sync to compile it, so in a day, you > would need to re-sync portage 3 or 4 times to get everything to compile. :P > ..Even still back in the 1.4 days, people really had no idea what to do." > > > You can't stir up something when there is nothing to stir up. > > Actually I think this whole drama shows that you can, or at least you can > draw attention to one thing (lack of paperwork) and pretend it means > something else (Gentoo is dying! Again!) People like drama. > > > So maybe we should focus more on our problems today, since we were unable > > of doing it yesterday. > > Er yeah, maybe you'd like to discuss those then? That was what the rest of > my mail was about. > > >> I've openly stated that I think user involvement and conduct on the dev > >> m-l are the biggest problems I see. > > As in, how do we constructively change those? Or do you believe that can > only be done by drobbins taking exclusive ownership of everyone's code? > > > > -- > gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list > > I think there is something wrong with your knode since it is putting into my mouth some words that I didn't say. When writing a mixed reply is not enough to mention the name of only one initial sender. -- gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list