From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DDCF138334 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:51:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02E14E07BA; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:51:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A312E07A7 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:51:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([212.159.46.162]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue107 [212.227.15.179]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MCayD-1hsCQp01wJ-009fY1 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2019 11:51:40 +0200 Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Questions for Gentoo Council nominees: Gentoo Foundation - Treasurer Response! To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <86784617.NvtdGxuBOO@pinacolada> From: Michael Everitt Openpgp: id=BA266E0525CFAB101523351B4C30334F93C22371 Autocrypt: addr=m.j.everitt@iee.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFngC8gBEAC8/nQZrVrr8v0kaD4OLw8UftKfPQFEMGY/rnFA81M9IvdyPP8/8u/+9AGc DEN3i/LRvW0KUBdKIngcUY/p1M/sJqBspMOBaoOLp6K53/2uxcGXw62TulQJU+7a37Jukv2r HNSyZzM6II0myConmJa8ja1HfsiVoqDrqNigBF+Sts1kqG4xg8YeyOl1Tk+LZwC+ukzzutE9 pbpIL2snu5I6a6RNi9DtbB9FZKzkbXx8TlpMXrcorNryOLQHPRw6tir5Z8kpetiJgoEpKGBX botDOWLVW+s9XnwPzAFmL03gH+3reY+LfrQWQTDphfZIp75caZQUicQHpc1NUr+8bLr3n79A FCPY3CfWriGn17aqaaXDFfeYPJIlH8UmOXI41JqR47C5eYFbocA8A4k7cGVAdKJFWLy51165 dt7qZyvUQc/olzrZOrvoiWXA8ELg7pqxxObM4kl0502IHz9kb6Lt712HvfjH5yAP8zTYpetn sCPR9aVVSQsRgluNrQFlKpVmUXbeBLjw05UBEunS6prDwXOyZdn7t03LSOlK2nBGM+gtxg8l /0Nb1saYMGGN8qtO4RLFRiRBc20kNz01cC89PKRIXYlW9dRZNH1zebIUCAg+S4hSmmV4uvaZ XRADb2G+ZZ2jj9cNTTnI+X1/a19S8XjBZ4z+9+Hty4nhoB6fawARAQABzSNNLiBKLiBFdmVy aXR0IDxtLmouZXZlcml0dEBpZWUub3JnPsLBgAQTAQgAKgIbAwUJA8JnAAULCQgHAwUVCgkI CwUWAgMBAAIeAQIXgAUCWeAgogIZAQAKCRBj58Z59NQx3awfD/4wMWDKcu0/s2KQhz5JUBfi v+PdY7xxJj77gPhHximyjWW8O1pu3H280HsL2751AuUyQ2JNWYUtbr8FIvk8dLBnjLmXQwu/ JhkPyAoW/3UcpSCjGkwZ0B/amHs9/dC99Y9Fk1lYDqm1FEmSmqnXHFg7tgdKpMF5eV7B0moS ISL0IKSOCMPHE1u/0bSwUVXbzuqWOLbWRcqH819aVsZG+unrQf87R0RKG5rI7OEkdtCDO+8D KlOPqo1i+Un9YvzdktNymHJtoHGljIWLoo5QMciHH5JX+y7bGH1mHfmnsqFsHiPQFkun3/xV qk9hI0qvl1q5ykX/UVZMmXaMVwWcpiLz4pHnN92v9BxyAESKJkj9fh9CoR958nmoLzhmVzdf pXHBlI4E5uYaKeCPbGNHZX0WoHaStf0f/AkuLSQj3g53VDWvDBt+qfnzBkGwYSGhM6tOQX5T Cz0WP8cZa6ghyzTy+z4jwT8/O9umurExdRl2D0VNdT4RPoCFs/jlFXFbnlGPC2FjvWfMEF8j 9FiPq19NPPRd8WiQYgRYehFFoDqNOzIu3LbshV2CPdVN5fsRD1lwOGlrmiPWQrWlfKoUK98G M5MfAcSJVkixsfoajZlH5lk48kBQsMnLxut2pmRiahtsEV0af+FHLs1ZuYngk0kJh5q+UyZi 4exXsLvHC/rPbs7BTQRZ4AvIARAA2MeaJF9ma6ngqTogwle2dHfAzilYpWSgt7Gej9APzidO mVfyoXIBsd3UMNQErFkRZNk/U0vyy0x9Azs3z0gqOo5E98veiN3VOf8g9vhTfxfHcVTz6JwX 9ggzO//iRPvUH3NKfEvpLNn8gkOvN9cTyh0k9Vrj28vBpD3HWWHJlU5wVrpFUpE4RFXDOpMD aAQAPkArzxXmc6CtnQfupkpZPe+mplDoEjFmw1F6fLp/09a+K0m97xZU0eG/tYWqItRpTHnY 8d92wFHNx1RdYyII8y2kCDNwp+E6oEX/DP5WspKGzgf/f9zci61v192wpXiqzoE9D+quFo9v z6Ywn8NCfqOUs+dnwZ9xtQXOHBU5lZi0avkg3HYQ1lArSkUHzlO4k5AslEu5AXqEOKe9Mo4q nYX/HK3xQEPwEJji2T8SR9IDPfAIYjSK6iMw7LT4ugCwVemNHmDSuWdZDjtbVMRdNtsWu0ar i04FQ+8cBovQHQyrVVYVduuazlBioX7dN8go17eue2C3hTr8xJhB4dX7/bfVAay1LeCWyaGr 15nfkAH4wXp11sSU482GwRnEEL5TeYDgHHtd+FyiYm3Wd5T5NKgPM5XpzIhm4MvLmWMhmC4O nLc5gZj2aQ7IWi2W5FlxSSu0VrC0q6hoNB0rCsz1GBKDBrLX+03hZrMRC0TeZZ8AEQEAAcLB ZQQYAQgADwUCWeALyAIbDAUJA8JnAAAKCRBj58Z59NQx3cwiEACpDgKf6ZlEx27TWzoV73v/ FV0Zy2vz+pqIIw2BKb1PbuEJnluZnWQ/u9nVCRoIQKDU5IHS+DoR76iTOUTiVmE+9ZltAHYi 9QRAHlwWdFkZqkoTNvrHw7pA0oOhgqC3k1n3FpAbT8GFZeIKRqgWCacTMBepMJRlz46nQ/CX 4Eh2HwrJrbgJJaMpNqoh+hJee7ev/TXV+OFLc310tJSZhSPXo9NkWGHu631RjOJl4Xf0vE4t Zy4aNE94NjMUOILjmaTp78HBUbsgqZrdl/wu2HbNNF5IKWwnyYRAeF9l73JuQwXLMrVQxbqP P9XiQqgKT4CF3xxdiXCS3Hq5s3OQLouFg03LGHyMAMtsP+8PepndmL/i79s/Mp0WYcJK6XAm Mi+Xknfi5Lay1oAjYu8UvGOWo5nOq62saN/bXG8/m+qqiueMOTDGXHZfklBglW5p6VYJd2eY W1teykJa7oGAOsiePl+z4UllNTBQVzhRPfmc/O3Yg6JJbISqHw84IWDINVUAN6wldIay83Tr gc1aAXDepgf6aNDbbWiQ+BBBJkAOGYTG9pnAaNMUKM65dkN7WufV2fwJHn900f2vzKyFYkKF bIiuODXBTfJG1yvMUQIgnDBYUBuBdDXB3NhOG8nHOJSQXTdI+Ma9ZMkxmVCxV9RXFPYBO8ji nurTf8FtGwnuig== Message-ID: <3816043a-9d19-c918-88e0-7048d4574762@iee.org> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 10:51:34 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H4w63tYD1D2HVEgjcbcJJrgqc4Ig6O28H" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:QwvjGxUunGeB38+Wztw2JJDaXX2lsjfk61snzzHKVhJeOkpPXMZ pLnvzVH7AghQHXHc4Fl93ZqiQPT9CQPUEUNpR0IPn/gmRimkV+CDQ+CjGVsDtKww4Gg777S lmQ1/7nVNHLnaJvt3Ul0iJXlOdYoY0UG66sBkV9i7kyoNPvxO2ePRhWwz1p5ATTvsJmolKv 1Y572XUTUv3oMUd0/WP+A== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:v7elb2hx51g=:VHnqEItJexyiqhQ+A25mhg fBb1JarI6JweLMw53YK7GmA3Coqgy/6d3Slv/A7JN8XEYCjBhswILTxk5Ip0goKfgA4xjJsyb U08zcHY4mKU50VrAuNWJ/Tm0n+4QEE9K8pmp0E+TLmqKPkCT78sylNEc3mRn+YC58GOwD228j YhJHivS8MQrEODaCnqLvsbeqMSaN95A+ulHOl9Or/JjN/kWSYwb5/WH9oqzqnrcqwFCo3cs3P /YAVmUQWNP3ywLx2uoIbulUmvgxhajaQbFWyPKXt+4+sOb2k0tjDWeHp/z5YGUwDIPuf5f2vZ Icepb6gCGv9wR4eYJU53ELIpwzvK3GtS+UdU52bwpv77OAkpOQV8TS7lhQgfZpBWWv93h2uM8 h73V3IfF9mA35CHkhMn0zSNV1VmIHPz62W00nkIPPkMuqWaV2cJYjQ3AIEMPGxqKkq0tBcrjr JLEPKeZZ+WWVxx6vIUqU0HiaSWHlVZJnfwVqfCikTaLcfZLgOXnwI2/fVECeU/ddJTBumjWN4 cWjeIESgvU+Xdmp8ST6RwWHHoVHBgiaKt4QgW114wkmzjvyeaDUUfaTBuWBJCl0BZaK4BRDK2 IYHe45/LndYP/1IUWeg4hc7IGQ6evj2UUaiy067y8WyNUfLSy7jzHIomfhL5BKscL1JOvoXrb PB4LpoupzFDiz6CAkk8SyDyCUCHPN70NO6TMfExy2XHWRfpqfkGpFjNHZrIavPJiwR88Pt8qe j8vAvqLbJDwNSjARcJHBJO9wHC2/EMVbVevrcQ== X-Archives-Salt: e1c749e6-cb9b-425a-acb8-12a949bd42c5 X-Archives-Hash: cea0d7244832cfbe4652503c705a9faa This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --H4w63tYD1D2HVEgjcbcJJrgqc4Ig6O28H Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="7gHAoZ0NHaWRduYxElqP5zDEiNNDMPFOh"; protected-headers="v1" From: Michael Everitt To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <3816043a-9d19-c918-88e0-7048d4574762@iee.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Questions for Gentoo Council nominees: Gentoo Foundation - Treasurer Response! References: <86784617.NvtdGxuBOO@pinacolada> In-Reply-To: --7gHAoZ0NHaWRduYxElqP5zDEiNNDMPFOh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-GB On 03/07/19 07:12, Robin H. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:34:06PM +0200, Andreas K. Huettel wrote: >>>> Yes, I understand that. However, I still believe that a contract >>>> initiated between CPA and a single small-ish entity such a Gentoo >>>> involves more costs than fees taken by umbrella dedicated to multipl= e >>>> entities. Please correct me if I'm wrong. >>> Nobody knows yet. Different umbrellas work differently. > The CPA we have engaged so far, Corporate Capital, has a standard > preparation fee of USD1500 per fiscal year. We do have some estimates o= f > Umbrella fees, plus the Financial Statements I prepared... > >> Sigh. I agree with the second statement. The first one, well... >> >> Here's the example of SPI (disclaimer, we do not know if they would ta= ke us): >> * no direct costs associated >> * 5% deduction from donations for SPI's overhead >> >> Big Hint, it helps to first research something and then talk / discuss= =2E That's=20 >> however, rather rare on this list. > The Trustees HAVE previously done _some_ of this legwork on the major > umbrellas, I don't have a link to hand, but I do remember details, > because it was in scope of my work as Treasurer; and we can combine > these with the financial statements to compare against the CPA quotes t= o > date. Further would should take the longer list of Umbrellas and > comprehensively document their costs. > > As further concrete example: > https://sfconservancy.org/projects/apply/ >>> How much does it cost us financially to join Conservancy? >>> New Conservancy members are required to pay 10% of their revenue > The umbrella fees I've seen range: > - smallest: 5% of net revenue (income less expenses) > - largest: 20% of gross income > > The exact definition of which expenses might be included/excluded by a > given umbrella might also vary, I didn't find a clear public > documentation on it. > > Basing that on the FY2018 fiscal, with the additional caveat that I > don't have any value assigned to in-kind server/hosting services > received by Infra; That would increase gross & net values. > > Gross Income: USD 28,600.15 > Gross Expenses: USD 9,292.95=20 > - Depreciation: USD 3,659.64 (it devalued assets but wasn't something w= e actually spent) > - "Real" Expense: USD 5,633.31 > =3D Net revenue: USD 22,966.84 > > 5% of net: USD 1,148.34 > 20% of gross: USD 5,720.03 > > At an outward glance, this does imply that some umbrellas would be > cheaper than a CPA, while others would be more expensive; but the > equation is more complicated, because we need to be careful about the > accounting of services that the umbrella would provide. > > The equation therefore should be more of: > Cost(Umbrella) vs [Umbrella baseline without umbrella-provided expenses= ] > > Regardless of the scale of the numbers, the change would REDUCE the > expenses, and increase the net revenue number (and thus also the > Umbrella's actual fee). > Thank you very much for providing some indicative figures, and for the wo= rk you have tirelessly done on the Gentoo finances, Robin. I hope the council considers them wisely. --7gHAoZ0NHaWRduYxElqP5zDEiNNDMPFOh-- --H4w63tYD1D2HVEgjcbcJJrgqc4Ig6O28H Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJdHHqpAAoJEGPnxnn01DHdLx4P/jn3grUj4mzoWfsoL2LsOSl1 EP5Lyizxk9gtUh41RXsDqvB8Rm++B8G8VZZhW7eSayph8692FAJ7yGgWLxH4cQHa rIc9usVhpwXDwTJD+R03lOVcoj5Dd3UGK9IKUI+ntSAN4obU/aqhfBBd+osd9zd1 bXAiCvrj+9XtjzjrCK846KYRpGFRZr0pHWljSzO3iE+oR+TU1wAG6VZRaW++8A1i ajqWc4Wbclb7rarlOrOY3Mu2uxO9a9sArUJqJWk82Vj3m8fpZTFMLtovzZtd+C++ 9JPvsXI2X89hku17kUU+QmGJWo7saOQuhJs9P7EtyepMpFXBrVpIxUT7goT1r+w8 jTr+5Hjn5oXWE4itEJWg7AJ8RFL49Hgvwd3b07emCVYdyUHHhsEP7tQr8Sd08MYQ Q3Cj8S2VF/9P5qmSQ4fcvEuNRZN/P31D6aj1ND+VT1aV2ywDM59TOOxmQy7eYA9f 2U7uZb3KNPCV2J6w+7sgYQcn1LSWJ+ZEPmwHMeUnQjLAGUk/iq64ofAIJWIttqNU SHO+SUvDBLsaAO9a38ErKfMtLGpeclC+Pe9jkVeQWacMoEmYFW4LBjSwafuAqPkm LmSQIj8nSU5jvq6Z/MuOAikRDKsl3qyle4olDxU1ufHWAbQLMYv4tT4BA/fjiJDo wvmIubo4UsIzQO0neXcc =reNq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --H4w63tYD1D2HVEgjcbcJJrgqc4Ig6O28H--