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([2604:6000:130f:8578:5e26:aff:fe7e:5367]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e8-v6sm947898qkj.0.2018.09.27.07.32.09 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 07:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] [RFC] GLEP 76: Copyright Policy [v4] To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <23325.35685.793702.267278@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <23337.15822.698153.812236@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <4683a4e7-c752-8735-4bcf-1ee7cb4837f9@gentoo.org> From: kuzetsa Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=kuzetsa@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFAAvSMBEACekA6f2B5X9zrQGsSvo1hZZ81cNu13WyZy66VS0JKGR17eSONbRN29h8FF sWEdXDnG4l7IcsaGynKkoMZHJKCl75aOW7y68ef7AzGnSabRSQmx6916VwhRrNPzBaAfb4qr 7YhrbX1whf5Rya1M1IWGPNez4QhPxaQBVP4mbE+csKeOEIpKQ2ZYo9q3uGso6rMj4nlh3I9P gVA5w6MX+G7JhcS9xgq/uIPIkZtX6w4xIhG4mfxg4kGARl4pf2eyF/KRCUww9J4geiIgkdMX VNV/jC/imb5GAnrPW9ZLdd5iZa/kUtsW5e/G/VNS0pdDjRABcm9hKeoLE3U8iCCLlu2+vrMM Rr8Ln4LeFg4JQ/Dyg38U8ZG7bu/CcVi3gG3B5m99LdAhiGX+ZgR7gvOzjddLhtIovVPOak7h Owzn1R5Y5H3eCfKfGjVGGdyih7lMxYVlrFVZbeJggk4UkBrOsdqabgx3Yu/fqF6MGlh0bOIt 85w0k/vjzSaa4XfzVh7LIpnGa8OIVrj963fYjYNjPKr2locKINUy4XbsXmgzOwdfQw6VEtno qNqeS3/1I5oWFq3aJUbGaYzQ+ngDUfb2rrRdbCVFkHzX9lCifjQfeBtFLgJsSgkb/k0lby2V 3Hiv/tMpRBq2mYGN0jq7ldm+aN7fKIgR3qJgGWKVD1qJfE24VwARAQABzSRTYXJhaCBXaGl0 ZSA8a3V6ZXRzYUBwb2luZGV4dGVyLm92aD7CwZAEEwEIADsCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYC AwECHgECF4AWIQQwfzEOnm1uw4oeqaa+TU79BSl8ZwUCW6x8xgIZAQAKCRC+TU79BSl8Z0QP D/jadN2l5lyzYvc7kVe0xxMxw18xVSKpBUCYn9g8f5QhxNFqRVYugF+XIAtY/S5ibd3KwwUb 3nqtLll9L1IJWqE4gK2gT6teYu7SEJ3d9H4/pQpyWzXONdcthao9ufe7fRuqH9bbhtWxNkrP LDYtH3Cx+C753bUThP0MYiz4HFb5PBc0RpuENIPocObyxiCrRtoZeSbMeCVI1jyATRh04C/y t/rLbdPQztLuoothnRU831u/KO8bflJUy1L20B8WO8EK2ssgkysplhE+5lCZ3fmA7+LZ/qGO BanEQdvtppJQ+CNnS/AWYhnAvp1Tzbn7ZZtCiSsTvfuE3RG0oU0Z0ClnUptfn+bjUvGV/Xse iY4xuQa9x4umQjYIJMRKrFs+zebS60k+h7Bz4KzhGZK8i/eMHVIuS+yZRCRSAiXRsWWu/pwt 0rit7dYe5sKEvYYq5hmtGZtjfcQa4VPfSGFF+vblO9YdFGO23Y/AFLS5bR6B+UoLRL/l4+R3 XudGIhb56QeHEVNJXGA3fMtRUErNUfJkh38uTKVCzZe8IAjWWQ8WLF9TBXoJqleDLDiLnFRK rmPUYkagB+3PKOSlGJRElskU+R45eVv/6wENpZW7Sq8cRuIHgeB7gei64ou6A6/XSPOwp6OZ XDyX6tHRVdmLPcsJyRL6oEK0D+3vejAb1piFzsFNBFAAvSMBEACcwelGdl0EqexFc/58Q+bt Z85IdFiQ1eRN17YPCQ9RHXCPoryfZqLKsNgvdqHzzzYQWN5DrMyR1hGVkyS+bQ7AUXiswxWy S/lv4HOfHe3srtjier5ypgkITYLKo+YB0BhNKZPNbFlIEKpl2BvVN/1wx5Yrb99jCwEbaoEK xy1qoPIcrnVPfnjHteZ09VQHZgpIYzMRgZA9RxZeAIr+9sCnLk9UbrTwg6bz7t1/YevZePUl vGcj6ietTJQKp3ADBj3UuVZlvYPKwafDW+vQPuhrNMoboivVm0L7Q6ZIonNhp1xEhxgjtxPT 47rCJX6CBbeSLRkmPD9wffAAJUXhIDu3gDw19kbLUb5Ug9f8OSh/6W9p6mDf5F7o/eOKLVwz xibWXGT5oHkgZrkjTS3U1OCZXFEE0qoMtkKj3RKMOa0AGIG/uM0dvRmHfLZ4Ei6m7nQen2cD NYOGq0wnpUfOzsKnIdwJzy02QSWMqu4SuqU0wpurW1YdcqYhQGswfCtAO+ZPDK/6diqM4bwk DTzOWxsZUpQaArjW5gVUp9j9ShM8Yprj0s+H8Rbqdro8GKn6jA69ojApD7ksI/r8duvDyWOr heIrUL/d9z4V2UEJqOJN+I8sqUVt0RsSN7Pcm5WyKzQan6p13iRNHyM4612F++MwEQaTQSM1 FMjo7H/SEitk+QARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJQAL0jAhsMAAoJEL5NTv0FKXxnszYP/RTft8Rk qwpaAQ4piq7dS310NWmxN3ig1N/2rlR6sYTIxQrr2FD21h/DwZ6JA4bROcp4epZrmvZRqYjs FA7fNr6Hm71G7cU/msZN1Tqm/XI3OQmG2eKNsYu5OEY9ALRGHQC66UeyfND+5RC4+wBz/+Cf rVZoP1rkivY+TaYDqScy2KnuXIDGpzcXHxQWf1Se/Wn3nHo9QhixlHmLFY8gE0XgugKZL7in Z1jZcqMjK8/9d0WErrCRMu5WmGYBB1OFZsMxXZAd6sI11ILiVhzmcYCqOT7fpnpTIELDWEZm atl62DO4AznO8QTj+puB4x1WrKhLZ/fRxAXVvQgd4xHdXhl1qv+BBBlCrA89vbs7RnXS+Sy1 OSR/C7Os4xDmAcUGpPpWEEHOWUKTgQDWNKHSuI+j29WTq7FedewTRKIU0oKygUikJ7+fbWue x0bTu8w8hbFKovWsHK5nVy9F2k3JnfdQZWL+byxVa1aq59aiOep1qnLCJLNAFoxfuFSI8QRV wRyuruB+/af3NfjU+2T9E7hmgSlPUACuxzu2eOKjLNjAu34FBv9VOqskTP0jIwpJHoKFQQWR lXJLKaVN0vClBp1lqegRsdLQbU0bZ2uYWUrHWzLEPhrWpJ1bVaFoIytLhdL6EKkx5nhfmYTq sFdfkmk54/J+iTXdjvnZBURJKuLP Message-ID: <37593b2c-67e4-af08-5231-6a7233b96e14@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:32:08 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 90b50661-c213-4c60-9229-2db4ffd886db X-Archives-Hash: a575042399d326e8b0c075633b1ee28e On 09/27/2018 10:13 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:52 AM NP-Hardass wrote: >> >> But that's really besides the point... The current status quo (as is the >> case with me) is that a committer may be pseudonymous under the >> condition that the Foundation have that individual's name in the event >> of a copyright issue. So, I still don't understand how forcing everyone >> to publicly use a real name achieves something that we aren't currently >> achieving... Is that incorrect? > > Interesting point. > > If we were going to go down this road I'd still suggest that the > Foundation have a policy on when the real names of contributors can be > disclosed, either privately or publicly. If we were to use the > defense that we have a statement from a contributor that they checked > the copyright and it was ok, the first question somebody will respond > with is, "who?" An answer of "we know who it is but can't tell > anybody, even a court" probably isn't going to work. > > I think there are other arguments to be made against anonymity. > You're hardly a list troll, but anonymity can breed this sort of > thing. From a strictly copyright standpoint I don't see why the > identity of contributors needs to be publicly disclosed, as long as it > can be disclosed where legally necessary. Of course, if that is a > court then depending on the jurisdiction it may become public anyway. > Also, if we were going to go down this route then we also need to have > better archives of such things, as trying to dig up some trustee email > from 10 years ago is not the right solution. A secured repository of > identities/etc would be better (the Foundation already has a place to > store stuff like bank account details). > > Another practical argument against anonymity. If everybody agrees > everything is public, then we don't have any personal information we > need to protect under various privacy laws. As soon as we agree to > keep some info private, then we potentially have obligations under > such laws. Also, legally the Foundation is a US organization - so I'm > not sure if things like the US-EU Safe Harbor provisions start to > apply if we want to collect this sort of info from EU citizens. It is > just a can of worms you can avoid simply by not hanging onto this kind > of information. I believe that many of these privacy protections > cannot be simply waived - we can't get some EU citizen to agree that > they don't apply to us. If the laws apply then we need to follow > them. Now, we're obviously not a big fish, so enforcement may never > happen. Maybe compliance isn't burdensome - I only know enough about > such things to know that I'd want to know more before going down that > road... > which is worse? the hassle of tracking some personal metadata in a way which is legally compliant, or admitting that gentoo didn't bother collecting it and then allowed itself to facilitate legal injuries on other parties - gentoo could be liable for that too. if someone opts-in to submitting legal documentation as an acceptable condition for affirming a name, that could make things easier for some LGBTQ people, or persons who don't feel like using a female-coded name, or any other personal attachment to a certain name. not sure how heavily to weigh my own bias VS the value of inclusiveness & the optics for gentoo's image, the spirit of the social contract (things like having a choice), and all those other factors which never came up in 2006 when the DCO first got its "real name" policy. -