From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 342CF139694 for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 23:07:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 00AD5E0CB3; Thu, 11 May 2017 23:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (mail.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5565E0BF3 for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 23:07:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [46.246.44.13] (anon-44-13.vpn.ipredator.se [46.246.44.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: zlg) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BE05933BEAE for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 23:07:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Items for Council Agenda, May 14 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <0ac908a7-9875-f629-fa0c-0c85945e1185@gentoo.org> <871srvx3o8.fsf@kestrel.kyomu.43-1.org> From: Daniel Campbell Message-ID: <2af81747-e08f-3226-d209-1a5ec59b69d9@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 16:07:04 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <871srvx3o8.fsf@kestrel.kyomu.43-1.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="q58nFrtDUITwoAq6gw6EDHb3wSNNK0Fb7" X-Archives-Salt: b23c6293-ab7f-4eed-aec5-77035021bb6f X-Archives-Hash: a83a7d8aad37a0a24ea434f136d4f9ef This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --q58nFrtDUITwoAq6gw6EDHb3wSNNK0Fb7 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Oco5pDa1pO1ljD9QEuVWAgaRmvoHW3F46"; protected-headers="v1" From: Daniel Campbell To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <2af81747-e08f-3226-d209-1a5ec59b69d9@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Items for Council Agenda, May 14 References: <0ac908a7-9875-f629-fa0c-0c85945e1185@gentoo.org> <871srvx3o8.fsf@kestrel.kyomu.43-1.org> In-Reply-To: <871srvx3o8.fsf@kestrel.kyomu.43-1.org> --Oco5pDa1pO1ljD9QEuVWAgaRmvoHW3F46 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/11/2017 12:17 AM, Matthias Maier wrote: > Hello all, >=20 > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017, at 12:00 CDT, "Anthony G. Basile" wrote: >=20 >> Hi everyone, >> >> The Gentoo Council will be meeting in two weeks. If anyone has any >> issues we need to discuss, please let me know and I'll put it on the >> agenda. Thanks. >=20 > I would like to make a last minute proposal. >=20 > Proposal: >=20 > I ask the council to establish a procedure / team to moderate the > gentoo-project@ and gentoo-dev@ mailing lists: >=20 > - In general the amount of moderation shall as minimal as possible > (in particular developers and long-time contributors > unconditionally green-lighted),=20 > - but for non-developers abusing the mailing lists for their own > agenda their contributions shall be moderated. > - Similar to irc operators there shall be a decicated moderator team= > to ensure a quick and timely response. > - The moderator team shall be different from council members, and > ideally also comrel, such that these groups can act as a check and= > balance. >=20 > Rationale: >=20 > The gentoo-dev@ and gentoo-project@ mailing lists nowadays serve > an important role for Gentoo development (e.g. mandatory announcement= , > RFCs, PATCH reviews). This function is currently severly impeded due > to the high level of noise and unrelated personal agenda [1]. >=20 > Best, > Matthias >=20 > [1] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/ >=20 This proposal, while well-intentioned, will only have an effect of chilling conversation. If that's the desired outcome, then that's fine (and we'll get to keep the pieces of what's left), but if the leadership of Gentoo cares about non-developers, we shouldn't be cutting them off from one of the more open fora we operate. At the core, whoever's moderating this will either be following the CoC (defined and enforced by comrel), or following direct council decisions like calling for the ban of a person on the ML. So despite attempts for a separate balance of power, it still has to filter through comrel and the council or any decision will be vetoed. I think there are a handful of Gentoo developers that would greatly enjoy this, but they're only focusing on the bad parts of interfacing with the public. We also need to consider how this will make us look to other communities and projects. Do we want to be among distros that moderate and expel dissenting opinions? Do we want to project an image that "Gentoo doesn't care or listen to outsiders"? I'd be open to a trial -- try it out for a few months and see what happens. I have a feeling I'll be right and activity will plummet, but the only way to know for sure is to try it. Then nobody can argue over it because we'll have facts to work with. Just my 2=C2=A2. --=20 Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 --Oco5pDa1pO1ljD9QEuVWAgaRmvoHW3F46-- --q58nFrtDUITwoAq6gw6EDHb3wSNNK0Fb7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEgIn+0tMDW9PQWDLnASQOlFA54XAFAlkU7pgACgkQASQOlFA5 4XALXRAApKV3gFpyJ9yGwigWgxIJ0o1WSS2/0nF8idx0Cc0GoyOr44n3za6R2uNY em099qf9KnsqR9YibS5DPQQvVev0gDpXW5MY4mrwtiwdROCxtrlTRIbjQiRjC0Dw k+/mVWQ+lZ4oE1ClrW8axkDX1k3JHEonII3WWFZkR20RwM4whEaS2WiFZp6KWGS1 P5yd1ChLcpzw4rfpBouuUN96rHmKJsE3kMDQgGuE1sra9FwA1hel++017lA3HCzP IjV83cxsm7+j8KkFLQ3MgVFR359AYAL/F6efkUMhB8xuRKjww1NKSazXwBwPvXfq 8Fer6wnxaVfEvKOo2hsvrSVseWjg5nfYaNwPIRTrCrF9CTdP47BJHdBQyBv7JR1w 5gWiVs8fPYGFcHy+SGgFXIGRQYxh2lRP1iC2du2jM5iAvQpAT67s2w7gaLcAHMBj iqCupfGDugX2hi4Gg8dxBohZRu+vTcIzUW5CpnXsy7VYKlH2uKrZImLbtTzrw9nQ vjAkMLsQoMza8xMXvSUK/6VSUwhSQ5y06TnIvJITzA4Ccml8gh7mA9oUZzoRYW7g qlKdJVK+q0Je5cHO7VfELsJPlE7PONPrzF+PykcGa8/AnRRORb8rPyUf/rYHEtu9 4Yoxe3ZTBCdLLqvoHQeWs1g60T7LojiErq7pmsst5p9D4HWIt/g= =t4Wb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --q58nFrtDUITwoAq6gw6EDHb3wSNNK0Fb7--