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[66.68.34.247]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q132-v6sm5928120oif.40.2018.06.17.13.34.38 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 17 Jun 2018 13:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Sender: William Hubbs Received: (nullmailer pid 9884 invoked by uid 1000); Sun, 17 Jun 2018 20:34:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 15:34:38 -0500 From: William Hubbs To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] William Hubbs council manifesto 2018-2019 Message-ID: <20180617203438.GA9809@linux1.home> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <20180617014233.GA1567@linux1.home> <7aff3272-74c2-c5ed-92d8-fb1b4baa1eba@iee.org> <5fd69b7e-abf6-dfef-afe7-39402b8b0c68@iee.org> <20180617172604.GA6560@linux1.home> <47901881-4bac-6638-d702-bfb42cfe32c4@iee.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Archives-Salt: b7cb7df2-17c5-4fb7-9933-0138dd545b4f X-Archives-Hash: 641081f1c634b4b551a6e3367145376c --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 02:23:02PM -0400, Alec Warner wrote: > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 2:15 PM, M. J. Everitt wrot= e: >=20 > > On 17/06/18 19:07, Alec Warner wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 1:26 PM William Hubbs > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > My opinion though is we should give the trustees time to catch up > >> > > >> > >> How much time? We're 14 years in, and Robin has been working on the > >> books for a few years I think. Don't get me wrong - I appreciate the > >> work he is doing, but I'm not convinced it is a one-person project, > >> and it doesn't end when the past is caught up. > >> > > > > I'm fairly confident we can fix the current tax problems (in the end, i= ts > > a problem we can solve with money, and we have some money.) > > I'm less convinced the non-profit yields any value over other > > alternatives, and so from an effort-basis I feel its necessary to wind = down > > and replace > > with something else. It sounds like this is the track to pursue. Vote forantarus as a trustee and make it happen. > > > > > >> > >> > > >> > Once that happens, I think it is better to work with them to choose = the > >> > future path since they own the Gentoo trademark, name, logo etc [1]. > >> > > >> > >> Working with somebody isn't the same as deferring everything to them. Sure, but when did I say defer everything to them? > >> > >> The problem with leaving the fate of the Foundation entirely to the > >> Trustees is that there is a lot of selection bias at work. Trustees > >> are a bunch of individuals selected for their interest in running a > >> non-profit (for the most part, simply volunteering for the post is > >> sufficient to be voted in). Should we be surprised when they advocate > >> for continuing to run a non-profit? > >> > > > > I really don't think this is true. Its explicitly not true for me. I wa= s a > > trustee because there were open slots and someone had to 'keep the ligh= ts > > on.' > > Other people who ran for the board have expressed similar sentiments. I= am > > running again in the next election on a platform of dissolution (closing > > the foundation) which is again contrary to your argument. There is no p= oint > > in continuing to run a non-profit that continues to nominally accrue ri= sk > > with little or no upside. Eventually it will become so toxic that you w= ill > > be unable to find anyone to run it (some may say this has already begun= to > > happen.) This is evident partially by the board's reduction in numbers. > > Previously the board had 13 seats, then 7, then 5. I'm not superbly > > confident we will be able to fill 5 seats in the next election. Rich, this argument makes no sense. > > > > > >> There is also no need to wait for the Foundation to fix everything > >> before working on a path forward. Just as individuals can use their > >> own property to work on Gentoo-related projects, or donate their own > >> money to the Gentoo Foundation, so other entities can use their own > >> property to work on Gentoo-related projects, or donate their money to > >> the Foundation. > >> > > > > I think some of the conflict is a result of communication style (Americ= a v > > European) and also the internet-based communication methods we use to m= eet > > and converse with each other. I've often pitched something else (audio = or > > video) but have never reached consensus. This isn't to discount the act= ual > > area of conflict (e.g. Finances) but how ones communicate ones ideas > > matters a fair bit. This makes sense too. > > -A > > > > > >> > >> -- > >> Rich > >> > >> > > Just to avoid confusion, Alex, are you talking about dissolving the > > organisation that is Gentoo Foundation, Inc. as a non-profit corporatio= n, > > or completely eradicating the Board, Trustees and Officers such that the > > day-to-day organisational aspects of Gentoo either moves to the Council > > (*shudders*) or to another organisation entirely, with whatever baggage > > that ensues?! > > >=20 > I mean the New Mexico Non-profit corporation would be dissolved. If Gentoo > continued to want to own its trademarks and raise funds, those functions > would have to be moved elsewhere. This is typically where an umbrella (SP= I, > SFLC, or similar) organization comes in handy; but I don't intend to be > prescriptive at this time in terms of what the next steps are. Obviously = we > have to figure that out prior to dissolution (because the Articles of > dissolution specify where assets go.) >=20 > -A --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTVeuxEZo4uUHOkQAluVBb0MMRlOAUCWybF1gAKCRBuVBb0MMRl OPf8AKCvPBp/g6fq3val+No/gXIKt0kAtACeO7Sx1fPyxGAp6Y6J0yoEXxAJm94= =Bj3G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw--