[gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Sergei Trofimovich]

Hello all!

13 May will be The Day. Council will meet again and
Decide on things in Gentoo.

Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
look at as a reply to this email.

To get the idea what usually happens at those meetings
you can have a glance at past meeting notes summary at:
    https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/Meeting_logs

Thank you!

-- 

  Sergei

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Raymond Jennings]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:11 PM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> 13 May will be The Day. Council will meet again and
> Decide on things in Gentoo.
>
> Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
> look at as a reply to this email.

Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
games@gentoo.org alias?

Examples:

* number of open bugs assigned to them
* commit rate to ebuilds in the games categories

> To get the idea what usually happens at those meetings
> you can have a glance at past meeting notes summary at:
>     https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/Meeting_logs
>
> Thank you!
>
> --
>
>   Sergei
>

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Paweł Hajdan, Jr.]

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On 02/05/2018 22:32, Raymond Jennings wrote:
> Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
> games@gentoo.org alias?
> 
> Examples:
> 
> * number of open bugs assigned to them

A possible candidate for the graphs we discussed on
<https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/0b30ad6840933872f55c2f61ebd460d7>
.

> * commit rate to ebuilds in the games categories

Makes sense as well, and I vaguely remember we have some graphs,
although not sure if filtered that way.

Side suggestion: consider being more direct about the goal of your
inquiry. Is there some issue, such as the team being unresponsive or
inactive?

Paweł


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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:43 PM Paweł Hajdan, Jr. <phajdan.jr@gentoo.org>
wrote:

> On 02/05/2018 22:32, Raymond Jennings wrote:
> > Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
> > games@gentoo.org alias?
> >
> > * commit rate to ebuilds in the games categories

> Side suggestion: consider being more direct about the goal of your
> inquiry. Is there some issue, such as the team being unresponsive or
> inactive?


Keep in mind that you don't have to be on the games@g.o alias to commit to
ebuilds in the games categories, so I'm not sure I'd tie the two together,
unless the concern is specifically with games ONLY maintained by the games
project, and not games in general.

Honestly though, I'm sure the "audit" would show the same thing an audit of
any category will show - there is more demand than supply.  :)

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Raymond Jennings]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:43 PM, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. <phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 02/05/2018 22:32, Raymond Jennings wrote:
>> Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
>> games@gentoo.org alias?
>>
>> Examples:
>>
>> * number of open bugs assigned to them
>
> A possible candidate for the graphs we discussed on
> <https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/0b30ad6840933872f55c2f61ebd460d7>
> .
>
>> * commit rate to ebuilds in the games categories
>
> Makes sense as well, and I vaguely remember we have some graphs,
> although not sure if filtered that way.
>
> Side suggestion: consider being more direct about the goal of your
> inquiry. Is there some issue, such as the team being unresponsive or
> inactive?

My goal is to highlight any possible lack of needed resources in this area.

I, as a user, have noticed very slow response times on dealing with
games bugs, and I was curious if added attention would highlight any
deficiencies.

Also, I was curious if I was the only user having trouble in this area.

I deduced that the audit I mentioned would shed light on the situation.

> Paweł
>

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Paweł Hajdan, Jr.]

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On 02/05/2018 23:11, Raymond Jennings wrote:
> My goal is to highlight any possible lack of needed resources in this area.
> 
> I, as a user, have noticed very slow response times on dealing with
> games bugs, and I was curious if added attention would highlight any
> deficiencies.
> 
> Also, I was curious if I was the only user having trouble in this area.
> 
> I deduced that the audit I mentioned would shed light on the situation.

Just got a thought: is this type of thing for a Council meeting agenda,
or just something we (you?) could do on the mailing list?

Maybe games herd should get added to
<https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Gentoo/Staffing_Needs>.

Would you be interested in contributing some fixes, possibly via the
proxy maintainership?

I'm not sure we need to involve the Council unless there's say pushback
from the games team or any such issue (I believe there was one not that
long ago, although I don't know how much did the situation change for
users and in what direction). Of course decision is not mine, just
wanted to share an opinion.

Paweł


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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Raymond Jennings]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. <phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 02/05/2018 23:11, Raymond Jennings wrote:
>> My goal is to highlight any possible lack of needed resources in this area.
>>
>> I, as a user, have noticed very slow response times on dealing with
>> games bugs, and I was curious if added attention would highlight any
>> deficiencies.
>>
>> Also, I was curious if I was the only user having trouble in this area.
>>
>> I deduced that the audit I mentioned would shed light on the situation.
>
> Just got a thought: is this type of thing for a Council meeting agenda,
> or just something we (you?) could do on the mailing list?

I honestly don't know.

I guess it could also be said that that itself was one of the
questions I could raise on the issue.

> Maybe games herd should get added to
> <https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Gentoo/Staffing_Needs>.

That actually sounds like a good idea.

> Would you be interested in contributing some fixes, possibly via the
> proxy maintainership?

Yes, I am.

My status with proxy maintainers is a bit to be desired though (not
sure if I should go into anything beyond that)

> I'm not sure we need to involve the Council unless there's say pushback
> from the games team or any such issue (I believe there was one not that
> long ago, although I don't know how much did the situation change for
> users and in what direction). Of course decision is not mine, just
> wanted to share an opinion.

I am aware that a bug was filed against the games group itself in
relation to possible defiance of QA rules at one point.  I forget how
long ago, but I believe it was related to the deprecation of the games
eclass.

In general:

Mostly I was curious if there was in fact a problem, and I figured an
audit would shed light on that hypothetical.

> Paweł
>

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

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On 05/02/2018 11:52 PM, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. wrote:
> On 02/05/2018 23:11, Raymond Jennings wrote:
>> My goal is to highlight any possible lack of needed resources in this area.
>>
>> I, as a user, have noticed very slow response times on dealing with
>> games bugs, and I was curious if added attention would highlight any
>> deficiencies.
>>
>> Also, I was curious if I was the only user having trouble in this area.
>>
>> I deduced that the audit I mentioned would shed light on the situation.
> Just got a thought: is this type of thing for a Council meeting agenda,
> or just something we (you?) could do on the mailing list?

I don't see any specific action requested from council, one action the
council could do in theory is of course mandate a mass-treecleaning or
removal of keywords of the unmaintained packages, but I doubt that is
something the OP wants.

-- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
OpenPGP keyblock reachable at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3


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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Raymond Jennings]

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:30 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand <k_f@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 05/02/2018 11:52 PM, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. wrote:
>> On 02/05/2018 23:11, Raymond Jennings wrote:
>>> My goal is to highlight any possible lack of needed resources in this area.
>>>
>>> I, as a user, have noticed very slow response times on dealing with
>>> games bugs, and I was curious if added attention would highlight any
>>> deficiencies.
>>>
>>> Also, I was curious if I was the only user having trouble in this area.
>>>
>>> I deduced that the audit I mentioned would shed light on the situation.
>> Just got a thought: is this type of thing for a Council meeting agenda,
>> or just something we (you?) could do on the mailing list?
>
> I don't see any specific action requested from council, one action the
> council could do in theory is of course mandate a mass-treecleaning or
> removal of keywords of the unmaintained packages, but I doubt that is
> something the OP wants.

More like I'm curious how aware the council is of manpower/progress statistics.

Does the council have the information it needs to monitor the health
of the project as a whole?

Games just happens to be my most immediate interest.

> --
> Kristian Fiskerstrand
> OpenPGP keyblock reachable at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
> fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3
>

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 7:43 AM Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:30 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand <k_f@gentoo.org>
wrote:
> > On 05/02/2018 11:52 PM, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. wrote:
> >> On 02/05/2018 23:11, Raymond Jennings wrote:
> >>> My goal is to highlight any possible lack of needed resources in this
area.
> >>>
> >>> I, as a user, have noticed very slow response times on dealing with
> >>> games bugs, and I was curious if added attention would highlight any
> >>> deficiencies.
> >>>
> >>> Also, I was curious if I was the only user having trouble in this
area.
> >>>
> >>> I deduced that the audit I mentioned would shed light on the
situation.
> >> Just got a thought: is this type of thing for a Council meeting agenda,
> >> or just something we (you?) could do on the mailing list?
> >
> > I don't see any specific action requested from council, one action the
> > council could do in theory is of course mandate a mass-treecleaning or
> > removal of keywords of the unmaintained packages, but I doubt that is
> > something the OP wants.

> More like I'm curious how aware the council is of manpower/progress
statistics.

> Does the council have the information it needs to monitor the health
> of the project as a whole?


And what would be done with this information?

I'm sure the games metrics would be dismal, as would be the metrics for
many categories.  I suspect you already believe this as well, as do most of
the Council members.  So, what is the point of this exercise?

It isn't like you need some kind of special access to analyze our
bugs/commits.  Everything is open.  If somebody wants to post the metrics
they should feel free to do so.  Do we need the Council to vote on a
resolution "encouraging members of the community to post metrics for
projects they are interested in, including games, or create tools to
automate this?"

The problem isn't measuring activity within categories.  The problem is
doing anything about it.

Also, I'd again like to point out that games != packages maintained by
games@g.o, since it seems like we spent an inordinate amount of time trying
to break this connection in previous years.  You don't need permission from
the games alias to maintain a game, just as you don't need permission from
the python alias to maintain a package that uses python, or permission from
the openrc alias to install an init.d script for a package.  So, if
somebody is interested in metrics on games I wouldn't measure it based on
packages/bugs assigned to games@g.o, unless you're interested very
specifically in things like the games eclass and so on.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[M. J. Everitt]

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On 03/05/18 13:43, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 7:43 AM Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Does the council have the information it needs to monitor the health
>> of the project as a whole?
>
> And what would be done with this information?
>
> I'm sure the games metrics would be dismal, as would be the metrics for
> many categories.  I suspect you already believe this as well, as do most of
> the Council members.  So, what is the point of this exercise?
>
> It isn't like you need some kind of special access to analyze our
> bugs/commits.  Everything is open.  If somebody wants to post the metrics
> they should feel free to do so.  Do we need the Council to vote on a
> resolution "encouraging members of the community to post metrics for
> projects they are interested in, including games, or create tools to
> automate this?"
>
> The problem isn't measuring activity within categories.  The problem is
> doing anything about it.
>
> Also, I'd again like to point out that games != packages maintained by
> games@g.o, since it seems like we spent an inordinate amount of time trying
> to break this connection in previous years.  You don't need permission from
> the games alias to maintain a game, just as you don't need permission from
> the python alias to maintain a package that uses python, or permission from
> the openrc alias to install an init.d script for a package.  So, if
> somebody is interested in metrics on games I wouldn't measure it based on
> packages/bugs assigned to games@g.o, unless you're interested very
> specifically in things like the games eclass and so on.
>
+1 well put.


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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Andreas K. Huettel]

Am Mittwoch, 2. Mai 2018, 22:43:53 CEST schrieb Paweł Hajdan, Jr.:
> On 02/05/2018 22:32, Raymond Jennings wrote:
> > Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
> > games@gentoo.org alias?
> > 
> > Examples:
> > 
> > * number of open bugs assigned to them
> 
> A possible candidate for the graphs we discussed on
> <https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/0b30ad6840933872f55c2f61ebd4
> 60d7> .

Done, but still boring.

https://www.akhuettel.de/gentoo-bugs/games.php

-- 
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer 
(council, toolchain, perl, libreoffice, comrel)

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Seemant Kulleen]

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Wish I could retweet this :p

On Sat, May 5, 2018, 06:02 Andreas K. Huettel <dilfridge@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 2. Mai 2018, 22:43:53 CEST schrieb Paweł Hajdan, Jr.:
> > On 02/05/2018 22:32, Raymond Jennings wrote:
> > > Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
> > > games@gentoo.org alias?
> > >
> > > Examples:
> > >
> > > * number of open bugs assigned to them
> >
> > A possible candidate for the graphs we discussed on
> > <
> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/0b30ad6840933872f55c2f61ebd4
> > 60d7> .
>
> Done, but still boring.
>
> https://www.akhuettel.de/gentoo-bugs/games.php
>
> --
> Andreas K. Hüttel
> dilfridge@gentoo.org
> Gentoo Linux developer
> (council, toolchain, perl, libreoffice, comrel)
>
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Sergei Trofimovich]

On Wed, 2 May 2018 13:32:18 -0700
Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com> wrote:

> Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
> games@gentoo.org alias?
> 
> Examples:
> 
> * number of open bugs assigned to them
> * commit rate to ebuilds in the games categories

All the data is public and you should be able to build all the
analytics yourself.

Which outcome would you like to see from council@ in this
matter? Acknowledge the statistics?

games@ (+CCed) should be your point of contact.

-- 

  Sergei

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Raymond Jennings]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 May 2018 13:32:18 -0700
> Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
>> games@gentoo.org alias?
>>
>> Examples:
>>
>> * number of open bugs assigned to them
>> * commit rate to ebuilds in the games categories
>
> All the data is public and you should be able to build all the
> analytics yourself.
>
> Which outcome would you like to see from council@ in this
> matter? Acknowledge the statistics?

I suppose I would like council to be aware of its state (or lack
thereof, as the case may be)

> games@ (+CCed) should be your point of contact.

Dear games@, how's your workload?
>
> --
>
>   Sergei

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[David Seifert]

On Wed, 2018-05-02 at 15:47 -0700, Raymond Jennings wrote:
> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org
> > wrote:
> > On Wed, 2 May 2018 13:32:18 -0700
> > Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
> > > games@gentoo.org alias?
> > > 
> > > Examples:
> > > 
> > > * number of open bugs assigned to them
> > > * commit rate to ebuilds in the games categories
> > 
> > All the data is public and you should be able to build all the
> > analytics yourself.
> > 
> > Which outcome would you like to see from council@ in this
> > matter? Acknowledge the statistics?
> 
> I suppose I would like council to be aware of its state (or lack
> thereof, as the case may be)
> 
> > games@ (+CCed) should be your point of contact.
> 
> Dear games@, how's your workload?
> > 
> > --
> > 
> >   Sergei

While we're in the process of creating busywork, I'd also like to
request a casual audit/overview of

- Ada
- Antivirus project
- Cjk
- Embedded
- Tcltk
- Theology

I would like a personalised 1-page report per project from the council,
with confirmation from 2 out of the big 4 auditing firms (Grant
Thornton is also permissible).

Kind Regards
David

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[M. J. Everitt]

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On 03/05/18 16:00, David Seifert wrote:
> While we're in the process of creating busywork, I'd also like to
> request a casual audit/overview of
>
> - Ada
> - Antivirus project
> - Cjk
> - Embedded
> - Tcltk
> - Theology
>
> I would like a personalised 1-page report per project from the council,
> with confirmation from 2 out of the big 4 auditing firms (Grant
> Thornton is also permissible).
>
> Kind Regards
> David
>
And for those who didn't notice it ..

</sarcasm>

+1 to Soap also.


For anyone still in any doubt about the council's purpose .. they
rubber-stamp (ie ratify) or revoke (ie. cancel) proposals. They don't
come UP with the proposals, that's YOUR job. They don't DO work - they
just meet up and take credit. If you think they SHOULD be doing some
WORK .. maybe you want to vote in some new members next election cycle ..

</just sayin>


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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Richard Yao]

> On May 3, 2018, at 11:10 AM, M. J. Everitt <m.j.everitt@iee.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/05/18 16:00, David Seifert wrote:
>> While we're in the process of creating busywork, I'd also like to
>> request a casual audit/overview of
>> 
>> - Ada
>> - Antivirus project
>> - Cjk
>> - Embedded
>> - Tcltk
>> - Theology
>> 
>> I would like a personalised 1-page report per project from the council,
>> with confirmation from 2 out of the big 4 auditing firms (Grant
>> Thornton is also permissible).
>> 
>> Kind Regards
>> David
>> 
> And for those who didn't notice it ..
> 
> </sarcasm>
> 
> +1 to Soap also.
> 
> 
> For anyone still in any doubt about the council's purpose .. they
> rubber-stamp (ie ratify) or revoke (ie. cancel) proposals. They don't
> come UP with the proposals, that's YOUR job. They don't DO work - they
> just meet up and take credit. If you think they SHOULD be doing some
> WORK .. maybe you want to vote in some new members next election cycle ..

This is correct, although I wonder who would want to run for the council if it were to entail doing more than just saying yes or no to things. They can already volunteer to do those other things outside of the council.
> 
> </just sayin>
> 

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[M. J. Everitt]

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On 03/05/18 16:20, Richard Yao wrote:
>
>> On May 3, 2018, at 11:10 AM, M. J. Everitt <m.j.everitt@iee.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/05/18 16:00, David Seifert wrote:
>>> While we're in the process of creating busywork, I'd also like to
>>> request a casual audit/overview of
>>>
>>> - Ada
>>> - Antivirus project
>>> - Cjk
>>> - Embedded
>>> - Tcltk
>>> - Theology
>>>
>>> I would like a personalised 1-page report per project from the council,
>>> with confirmation from 2 out of the big 4 auditing firms (Grant
>>> Thornton is also permissible).
>>>
>>> Kind Regards
>>> David
>>>
>> And for those who didn't notice it ..
>>
>> </sarcasm>
>>
>> +1 to Soap also.
>>
>>
>> For anyone still in any doubt about the council's purpose .. they
>> rubber-stamp (ie ratify) or revoke (ie. cancel) proposals. They don't
>> come UP with the proposals, that's YOUR job. They don't DO work - they
>> just meet up and take credit. If you think they SHOULD be doing some
>> WORK .. maybe you want to vote in some new members next election cycle ..
> This is correct, although I wonder who would want to run for the council if it were to entail doing more than just saying yes or no to things. They can already volunteer to do those other things outside of the council.
>> </just sayin>
>>
>
Whilst I do agree with the synopsis, I fail really to see the point of
the council's existence .. ditch it and just have a dev vote. Quorum+
majority carries .. why bother with it?! yanno?!


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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Richard Yao]

> On May 3, 2018, at 11:34 AM, M. J. Everitt <m.j.everitt@iee.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/05/18 16:20, Richard Yao wrote:
>> 
>>>> On May 3, 2018, at 11:10 AM, M. J. Everitt <m.j.everitt@iee.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 03/05/18 16:00, David Seifert wrote:
>>>> While we're in the process of creating busywork, I'd also like to
>>>> request a casual audit/overview of
>>>> 
>>>> - Ada
>>>> - Antivirus project
>>>> - Cjk
>>>> - Embedded
>>>> - Tcltk
>>>> - Theology
>>>> 
>>>> I would like a personalised 1-page report per project from the council,
>>>> with confirmation from 2 out of the big 4 auditing firms (Grant
>>>> Thornton is also permissible).
>>>> 
>>>> Kind Regards
>>>> David
>>>> 
>>> And for those who didn't notice it ..
>>> 
>>> </sarcasm>
>>> 
>>> +1 to Soap also.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For anyone still in any doubt about the council's purpose .. they
>>> rubber-stamp (ie ratify) or revoke (ie. cancel) proposals. They don't
>>> come UP with the proposals, that's YOUR job. They don't DO work - they
>>> just meet up and take credit. If you think they SHOULD be doing some
>>> WORK .. maybe you want to vote in some new members next election cycle ..
>> This is correct, although I wonder who would want to run for the council if it were to entail doing more than just saying yes or no to things. They can already volunteer to do those other things outside of the council.
>>> </just sayin>
>>> 
>> 
> Whilst I do agree with the synopsis, I fail really to see the point of
> the council's existence .. ditch it and just have a dev vote. Quorum+
> majority carries .. why bother with it?! yanno?!

The council’s existence frees the rest of us from having to consider every little thing. This solves the amadyl’s law slowdown from everyone trying to educate themselves on every project decision before voting, assuming that they all can keep up. Also, getting 7 people’s schedules to line up for meetings and votes is hard enough. Getting >100 people’s schedules to line up would be a nightmare.

It is not that it cannot be done, but I see a switch to a majority vote making the decision making process chaotic. We do give up some things by delegating decision making to the council, but I feel that the benefits outweigh the downsides. If you disagree with a plan, it is far easier to take your case to 7 people than to over 100. It is not like any of them do not have the project’s best interest at heart either, so a well reasoned argument should prevail. Not to mention, if nearly everyone really does agree, it is highly unlikely that the 7 council members would be among those who disagree.

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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> 
> And for those who didn't notice it ..
> 
> </sarcasm>
> 
> +1 to Soap also.
> 
> 
> For anyone still in any doubt about the council's purpose .. they
> rubber-stamp (ie ratify) or revoke (ie. cancel) proposals. They don't
> come UP with the proposals, that's YOUR job.

It's maybe worth to consider who comes up with proposals or writes up those 
specs (PMS, GLEP, whatever) that the council decides on (if only to summarize 
the public discussion beforehand). You'll find that people in the council are 
often also heavily involved there.

(Not always... and of course not exclusively.)

So, thanks for the silly contribution of the day.

-- 
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer
(council, toolchain, perl, libreoffice, comrel)

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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Michał Górny]

Dnia 2 maja 2018 22:32:18 CEST, Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com> napisał(a):
>On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:11 PM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org>
>wrote:
>> Hello all!
>>
>> 13 May will be The Day. Council will meet again and
>> Decide on things in Gentoo.
>>
>> Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
>> look at as a reply to this email.
>
>Could I suggest a casual audit/overview of the workload of the
>games@gentoo.org alias?
>
>Examples:
>
>* number of open bugs assigned to them
>* commit rate to ebuilds in the games categories

Given that is thread seems to have gone -meta, could you please start a separate thread focused on the problems with games project, in order to gather explicit feedback? Please also CC them there.

>
>> To get the idea what usually happens at those meetings
>> you can have a glance at past meeting notes summary at:
>>     https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/Meeting_logs
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> --
>>
>>   Sergei
>>


-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny (by phone)

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Mikle Kolyada]

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On 02.05.2018 22:11, Sergei Trofimovich wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> 13 May will be The Day. Council will meet again and
> Decide on things in Gentoo.
>
> Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
> look at as a reply to this email.
>
> To get the idea what usually happens at those meetings
> you can have a glance at past meeting notes summary at:
>     https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/Meeting_logs
>
> Thank you!
>
As requested by mgorny at [1]

<hat="qa">
<hat="arch_teams_member">

I politely ask council to reconsider its state again, despite some efforts have been recently done to keep it stable, it seems to fell behind again, from my point of view it is not worth to support it anymore in any way. Debian dropped its support oficially (back to 2011). Only Gentoo and NetBSD are supporting this legacy thing. And no chance of getting really new hardware for this.

I think it would be greate idea to say goodbye, at least move it to dev (exp?) and start package dekeywording.

</hat>
</hat>

[1] - https://bugs.gentoo.org/629554


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Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Sergei Trofimovich]

On Sun, 6 May 2018 10:51:06 +0300
Mikle Kolyada <zlogene@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 02.05.2018 22:11, Sergei Trofimovich wrote:
> > Hello all!
> >
> > 13 May will be The Day. Council will meet again and
> > Decide on things in Gentoo.
> >
> > Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
> > look at as a reply to this email.
> >
> > To get the idea what usually happens at those meetings
> > you can have a glance at past meeting notes summary at:
> >     https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/Meeting_logs
> >
> > Thank you!
> >  
> As requested by mgorny at [1]
> 
> <hat="qa">
> <hat="arch_teams_member">
> 
> I politely ask council to reconsider its state again, despite some efforts have been recently done to keep it stable, it seems to fell behind again, from my point of view it is not worth to support it anymore in any way. Debian dropped its support oficially (back to 2011). Only Gentoo and NetBSD are supporting this legacy thing. And no chance of getting really new hardware for this.
> 
> I think it would be greate idea to say goodbye, at least move it to dev (exp?) and start package dekeywording.

[CC +hppa@] Sent a proposal to move profiles to exp:
    https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/48d15ee5d1075a079685c11c81d261e8

-- 

  Sergei

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[R0b0t1]

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Hello friends,

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
> look at as a reply to this email.
>

It seems there is a bit more activity this time, but I would like to
provide a picture of my other cat.

Cheers,
     R0b0t1

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Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Sergei Trofimovich]

On Sun, 6 May 2018 16:00:26 -0500
R0b0t1 <r030t1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello friends,
> 
> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
> > look at as a reply to this email.
> >  
> 
> It seems there is a bit more activity this time, but I would like to
> provide a picture of my other cat.

Please try to stay on topic of this mailing list which is stated as:
    "For the discussion of non-technical matters in Gentoo"
Source: https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/all-lists.html

Having unactionable responses in this email thread distracts me
from gathering agenda items for next council meeting.

Thank you for your understanding!

-- 

  Sergei

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[R0b0t1]

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 6:10 AM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 May 2018 16:00:26 -0500
> R0b0t1 <r030t1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello friends,
>>
>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> > Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
>> > look at as a reply to this email.
>> >
>>
>> It seems there is a bit more activity this time, but I would like to
>> provide a picture of my other cat.
>
> Please try to stay on topic of this mailing list which is stated as:
>     "For the discussion of non-technical matters in Gentoo"
> Source: https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/all-lists.html
>
> Having unactionable responses in this email thread distracts me
> from gathering agenda items for next council meeting.
>
> Thank you for your understanding!
>

It will not happen again, sir. I only have two cats.

Cheers,
     R0b0t1

Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2018-05-13

[Seemant Kulleen]

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A couple of weeks ago you did the first one.  At the time I had a
microsecond's worth of "wtf r0b0t?" which got quickly replaced by an LOL
(an actual one).

Cheers for this week's LOL ;)

On Mon, May 7, 2018, 17:23 R0b0t1 <r030t1@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 6:10 AM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > On Sun, 6 May 2018 16:00:26 -0500
> > R0b0t1 <r030t1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello friends,
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> >> > Please provide agenda items you would like council@ to
> >> > look at as a reply to this email.
> >> >
> >>
> >> It seems there is a bit more activity this time, but I would like to
> >> provide a picture of my other cat.
> >
> > Please try to stay on topic of this mailing list which is stated as:
> >     "For the discussion of non-technical matters in Gentoo"
> > Source: https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/all-lists.html
> >
> > Having unactionable responses in this email thread distracts me
> > from gathering agenda items for next council meeting.
> >
> > Thank you for your understanding!
> >
>
> It will not happen again, sir. I only have two cats.
>
> Cheers,
>      R0b0t1
>
>

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