I am circumventing an unjustified, no policy covered 1 year mailing list ban. I will make this one post and unsubscribe. It is long. I want to clear up the air about the history of the Gentoo Foundation and GLEP 39 with FACTS! This is the factual order of creation. 1. Gentoo Technologies, Inc came first ( New Mexico # 2055978 ) 2. Gentoo Technologies was converted into Gentoo Foundation (New Mexico # 2463313) 3. Then AFTER the Gentoo Foundation was created, GLEP 39 came about This is very important, as GLEP 39 was an afterthought. It was not part of the Foundation formation, nor that model. GLEP 39 did not address all issues, or provide a complete model for the organization as a whole. The result has been a Foundation with a questionable role. Infra has become its own top level entity at times. With council being off on its own with no connection to other two. GLEP 39 was a partial solution to the problem of replacing Daniel Robbins, who ran Gentoo Technologies Inc. The Councils limited role never fully replaced all roles Daniel fulfilled. It split roles over to Foundation, Infra, and Council, and created a total mess. Is it of any surprise this mess remains years later? Yet people hold up GLEP 39 like its been a good thing for Gentoo. Its been part of Gentoo's destruction!!! Just look who wrote GLEP 39.... Ask yourself the following. Who are the GLEP 39 authors? Were they good or bad for Gentoo? How did they leave things? Is Gentoo better off after them? Grant Goodyear He was a trustee I replaced. He left the foundation in a complete mess which remains to this day. He moved on long ago, and left a mess... Despite being a Trustee, nothing in GLEP 39 about foundation or its role. Which shows he was not thinking about the entire project as whole. Ciaran McCreesh Removed from Gentoo, developer status revoked... Look at bugs from 2006 https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=IN_PROGRESS&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&f0=OP&f1=OP&f2=alias&f3=short_desc&f4=CP&f5=CP&j1=OR&list_id=3904228&o2=substring&o3=substring&query_format=advanced&v2=ciaran&v3=ciaran The fact both have moved on, and one was removed. Neither left anything good, or did anything good really for the long term health of the project or developer community. Yet others want to stand by their ideas and work on GLEP 39. That should be scrapped ASAP, as both of them... GLEP 39 came about in 2006. Developer count seems to have peaked out around http://www.seemantk.com/viz/gentoo/galaxy/ Popularity fell off around then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_Linux#Popularity Many factors in both, but GLEP 39 did nothing to help. GLEP 39 has NOT made anything better and if anything continues to make things worse. Anyone standing by or pointing to GLEP 39 falls under that structure. Likely council members or the like past or present. You rarely if ever see others bringing up or standing by GLEP 39... Its a junk GLEP!!! In standing by GLEP 39, your also standing by the authors. That they had good ideas, and are good for Gentoo. That they left Gentoo better than they found it. Sadly factually that is not the case for either. Yet others want to stand by this failed work. Ignoring who authored this document, and their impact, and current standings. People also ignore the FACT, the Foundation came first. GLEP 39 came after. What I am not clear on, is how GLEP 39 came to be. Did all developers vote? Or was it approved by some GLEP team. Most GLEPs are not brought to a general vote, so a select few get to approve or disapprove such. Either way GLEP 39 came AFTER the foundation and left gaping holes. If GLEP 39 was voted or not would be interesting to know. IMHO it is insane to continue to stand by this horrible GLEP 39. It has ruined Gentoo IMHO. GLEP 4 was MUCH better. It is even more insane to discard the Foundation for GLEP 39, given its incomplete nature. To many things as part of the organization GLEP 39 fails to address, or even come close to addressing. The authors never understood how to properly organize the project after Daniel Robbins left. This is the reason why the project is still in disarray years later. People debating roles of council, foundation, infra, etc. That is clear proof of the mess, all a result of GLEP 39 being a partial effort with gaping holes. Those things should have been covered by GLEP 39. GLEP 39 is likely why Gentoo is plagued with unique problems and no matter who is in council, or developers. Those problems remain and continue. Gentoo will continue to have these issues as long as GLEP 39 remains and others stand by it.... It is a failed incomplete model... Please do your homework on GLEP 39... Starting with who wrote it... Look who you are following. Others need to stop teaching the misguided ways that others put forward. Such as.... Gentoo's Reform and Future (Petteri Räty, Jorge Manuel B. S. 2011 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ3vkUBQkyg osc12: Robin H. Johnson Gentoo Infra Team: State of Gentoo Infrastructure 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ptCRCcKMJo LinuxDays 2016 - Gentoo Foundation, background and status report - Robin Johnson 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3bmXVbxMgE When I see other say things like "how I was taught "Gentoo works" for my quizzes sometime around 2010" https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/251361b7eee8ed4e20508ea35ae97df4 People need to understand, others have been misleading misguiding them for a very long time. They were TAUGHT WRONG!!! I tried to correct this long ago. I can see the impact of others spreading their ideas and winning, while Gentoo is losing. Thus it does not surprise me where things are at, or that newer developers know no difference. They simply pass on and continue to spread the incorrect things they were taught. No matter the impact on the project. they cannot see past what they are taught or think for themselves.... This is EXACTLY why in one of my attempts to return in 2011, it took 2 hours to make it to the 10th question on the 1st question. I was literally disagreeing with the teaching. A recruiter was arguing and debating with a past Trustee... They were wrong... They still are wrong, and others still are taught wrong.... https://bugs.gentoo.org/135927#c27 They hid the log, which if public. You would see me trying to correct how Recruiting was teaching others in 2011... There is a reason why they wanted it private, and it was not giving out quiz answers. Those first 10 questions are minor. 1-7 are all organization and structure 4. What is the purpose of the Gentoo Council? 5. What is the Gentoo Foundation? How does one apply for membership and who are eligible? https://projects.gentoo.org/comrel/recruiters/quizzes/developer-quiz.txt Can you see based on my comments thus far, why I would have VERY different answers to those questions than what recruiters want to hear. I know what Gentoo and the Gentoo Foundation was intended to be, not what it has become. Mostly via the horrible GLEP 39, and the people behind that GLEP.... I will not tell a recruiter what they want to hear when they were miss-taught. Just sad recruiters would not learn from past Trustees... Rather argue with them and continue teaching others the wrong stuff... Yet others still stand by GLEP 39, like it is good, has been good for Gentoo, etc. It needs to go, ASAP. GLEP 39's impact, just like that of its authors have not been good for Gentoo. But do not take my word. Go research the authors and form your own opinion. Look at the issues raised in GLEP 39. Are any of those issues resolved? https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0039.html#problems-with-the-existing-system What about this bit of GLEP 39, which I want everyone to ask themselves, and answer.... "So, does this proposal solve any of the previously-mentioned problems?" https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0039.html#rationale IMHO GLEP 39 creates more problems than it solves, and it does not solve or address a majority of the issues it was intended to resolve. Thus IMHO GLEP 39 is garbage and should be scrapped. Concepts may carry over to something new, but it should not be held up, stood by, kept in place of Foundation, etc. Either way GLEP 39 needs to go, and maybe anyone standing by that horrendous and destructive GLEP.... GLEP 39 did not come first, but LAST..... It should be first to go.... Unsubscribing to respect the ridiculous 1yr ban for what? With option to extend at end of 1yr. Despite no policy covering such term, etc. https://bugs.gentoo.org/640160 -- William L. Thomson Jr.