From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <gentoo-project+bounces-6447-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org> Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73576139085 for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:46:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F50A2340EC; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:46:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (mail.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13C892340EB for <gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:46:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from katipo2.lan (unknown [IPv6:2406:e001:1:d01:de0e:a1ff:fea1:6ec4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: kentnl) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B24A1340C97 for <gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:46:45 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 12:45:09 +1300 From: Kent Fredric <kentnl@gentoo.org> To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] RFC: GLEP - Require Projects to report to Council Monthly Message-ID: <20170127124509.02e0f2e6@katipo2.lan> In-Reply-To: <assp.0199279963.13174044.AnB05Y1xCq@wlt> References: <assp.019211b0b1.1683986.sz8zTcAYcg@wlt> <assp.0194ded782.5184158.LL5x5SYOlM@wlt> <20170126145712.3acefb7c@katipo2.lan> <assp.0199279963.13174044.AnB05Y1xCq@wlt> Organization: Gentoo X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.14.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-project+help@lists.gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-project+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-project+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list <gentoo-project.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/QQgz_MHXb.JBEzy5A2QQEyi"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: ee659998-9727-43e9-8daf-0fe2f40dc595 X-Archives-Hash: b2ddaec54df6522f6ce8cf58b37fd738 --Sig_/QQgz_MHXb.JBEzy5A2QQEyi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 10:45:50 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt-ml@o-sinc.com> wrote: > On Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:57:12 PM EST Kent Fredric wrote: > > On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 12:03:02 -0500 > >=20 > > "William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt-ml@o-sinc.com> wrote: =20 > [...] =20 > >=20 > > That may be how you see it. =20 >=20 > No that is fact, given how people keep discussing and focusing on punishm= ent. > It clearly shows a mindset and the atmosphere. Not a friendly one! That's why I'm *only* getting that impression around you. Right. The reality with human communication, is if people collectively interpret y= ou incorrectly, that's something only you can rectify.=20 It sucks to have people misunderstand you, but you don't get to say "no, I'm not giving this perception, you're just imagining it" Because you are giving that perception. It becomes a question of *why* you'= re giving that perception and what you can do to rectify that. Granted, when a perception is misunderstood, you can then subsequently, wit= h care, correct that. But as to how initial misperceptions are created, that's an exercise that r= equires your investment. Nobody else can do it for you. Related concept presented comically by Louis CK: https://www.youtube.com/wa= tch?v=3D18y6vteoaQY&t=3D110 > > But for me, I don't really have that problem in general, and I only see= m to > > bump into it when dealing with these horrible mailinglists of rivers of > > emails that never end, when I'd rather STFU&WSC =20 >=20 > Please I tend to be more active than most speaking > https://github.com/wltjr I don't get what you're trying to say here. Its not a dick measuring contes= t. If you're meaning to say you do more stuff than I do, and how when I say I'd rather STFU&WSC, th= at I'm just being rhetorical about that, allow me:=20 https://github.com/kentfredric I don't know which metrics you're specifically suggesting I see, but I thin= k at least one of those numbers are comparable. But that's besides the point. I find lengthy mailinglist discussions exhausting and there's often very ve= ry little return on investment, and usually nothing becomes of any of it, so its just stupid conflict witho= ut utility. Great. The only reason I involve myself in the first place is some conflicted delu= ded side effect of empathy kicking in. Because somehow, I feel that maybe I can contribute som= ething that will make a bad situation better. Sometimes my patience helps me here, but usually it= just makes me incredibly depressed about humanity in general. Instead, I took what I could from this, and pretty much side stepped the ne= ed for any such formalised proposal by just doing something that could potentially be construed to be useful. I just simply externalised my mental work queue to somewhere on the wiki so= people could see it if they cared, with no requirements of any kind. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Kentnl/TODO Somebody could scrape this, and aggregate it, I don't know, I don't care. I= ts useful to me as-is, and it could be useful to somebody else. The problem is solved and I can go do something el= se. And within hours, somebody noticed and copied me:=20 https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Leio/TODO Self-organising systems are great. >=20 > > And for me, it very much *is* what you're writing that gives me these v= ibes. =20 >=20 > You do not know me, and you are reading things I did not write. Worrying = about=20 > things I am not even discussing. None of that comes from me.... >=20 > > I don't pretend to be able to explain how that is, but it is true. > >=20 > > I don't know how to resolve it either, but I'm just generally trying to > > think to myself "Should I actually respond, or should I just shut my mo= uth > > and do something else lest I make this fire worse" =20 >=20 > I see allot of people talking who became developers years after I was one= . I=20 > do not see any respect for those that came before. No respect for wisdom= =20 > gained over a decade, etc. >=20 > I routinely will google Gentoo New Developer, with a persons name. Rarely= am I=20 > talking to anyone from say before 2010. Most have become developers since= and=20 > have a very different perspective. There is some kind of respect for people over time, but it plateaus quickly= , and beyond that, everyone are just as mortal and fallible as I am, and they need to pr= ove themselves. And constantly. People do change, and sometimes they change for the worse, so being experie= nced and older is not in itself an extended license of authority. One can still respect and listen to those views, but are still entitled to = reject them. I really wish I'd gotten paid for all the times I'd had to babysit people o= lder than me when they were throwing their toys out of the proverbial cot like children. --Sig_/QQgz_MHXb.JBEzy5A2QQEyi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEPZazbI/qrFT1o9rn6FQySxNmqCAFAliKiiQACgkQ6FQySxNm qCBKEA//Sunf1eZ5QXJphld3nS6bWYO8mpwGacf6x3sI6ul2vBu7KVrKxkhTli3o rswQDbCWUumADcV4AdP2dJ1dvCh/0fmXLxsnEKGLkAPnwxjbDvUwBdLdnZw5qDXp PqMDxa6aOVAgLwXS+T184fp23FC0Wj++m8nyNuhXlPkol9OvnK4DC6548CV94HNh 8+gYOBMXjmtEYSgLQdJSI7mMKfwRh5Xl0/W8XJE5ncDeCJkkvGkd/9y1YGFUgHl4 SR9QifJIz1IciMuH3BUhyr6K1uzHMnBNA9xd74+JKM4QRysGKH1TLg7o9SzCS5es kLrnkFUx2gZs6FOH7dNnCIAPblstufRngPYZUdd5B/wIV8NuPcTKHqQf/o37DbQv xp0uWJtl45O9bZO0ndqwYFK4P3OK9U6AcQbPvYca5weD0yPlxGB+C5dibj5a5+af ++Pt31Qp69H2titTGWdhhd2iY+edar7v9d0o01brwjh9hn8x1z74o2hIuDdHXTVK NEcw6jVNu/BrgIkjKfEagau9sDVT9vMwcHtRkRVObiPSGZl+1gKNo78fvA51yh7u kmtJsanNkDKoB8j4xF8St4gYqgxbtNm0zcu9atNTUqMw5RFOwrlEAulKitnqizP4 OLgl/AcXIG1ByZjuECQxf7nVVn2wvnyYS37Zyt+B8RKbyTcYtos= =FGfj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/QQgz_MHXb.JBEzy5A2QQEyi--