From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32DAF139085 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 18:04:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D9FAAE0DF1; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 18:04:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 963D8E0DF0 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 18:04:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pomiot (d202-252.icpnet.pl [109.173.202.252]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mgorny) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C4D9341398; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 18:04:11 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2017 19:04:05 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?TWljaGHFgiBHw7Nybnk=?= To: Alec Warner Cc: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org, "William L. Thomson Jr." Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Merging Trustees and Council / Developers and Foundation - 1.0 reply Message-ID: <20170111190405.6dbc4d31.mgorny@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: References: <35d4687b-4cbd-cf79-254c-c7476c06bb3a@gentoo.org> <20170111154634.6d2ec503.mgorny@gentoo.org> <20170111175050.12e5887d.mgorny@gentoo.org> Organization: Gentoo X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.14.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="Sig_/7Aw3q.6vPHJgysQHlqlnd22"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: dedf6740-fc21-4909-97a3-a56c150b05c2 X-Archives-Hash: 26c05c20f8b84b3264caafda222fe3f3 --Sig_/7Aw3q.6vPHJgysQHlqlnd22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 09:04:29 -0800 Alec Warner wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: >=20 > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 10:56:16 -0500 > > "William L. Thomson Jr." wrote: > > =20 > > > On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 3:46:34 PM EST Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny = wrote: =20 > > > > > > > > 1. I do not mind encouraging more developers to join the Foundation= , or > > > > even making it opt-out. However, I do oppose discriminating develop= ers > > > > who decide not to join the Foundation. =20 > > > > > > There should not be any discrimination. Just an understanding by opti= ng =20 > > out =20 > > > you give up your voice/vote. =20 > > > > And how is that not discriminating? On one hand you talk of giving > > people outside the project the means to influence it, yet you > > explicitly take away the right of voting for people outside > > the Foundation (even though they are in the project, after all). > > =20 >=20 > To put it another way: >=20 > 1) One goal is to have more foundation members who are also developers > (alignment of ideas). > 2) If joining the foundation offers no benefit, then developers will not > join. > 3) One benefit we could offer is to merge the voting pools, so that the > voters for Trustees and the Council are the same. > 4) This means that anyone who "really cares about how Gentoo is run as a > distribution" is nominally forced to join the Foundation to exercise their > vote. >=20 > This is a specific implementation of the basic idea that "the foundation > has no interesting duties, so we need to give it interesting duties." I > suspect there are other ways of making Foundation membership useful enough > that people actually pursue it. >=20 > (Reading it written out it does look like a fairly draconian approach.) Exactly my point. So why do we want to pursue that? Wouldn't it better to make it really optional, and turn Foundation membership into a thing developers would be proud of? --=20 Best regards, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny --Sig_/7Aw3q.6vPHJgysQHlqlnd22 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEEbbsHzE8NrQbqCv5BsHoa6u+0Rk4FAlh2c5VfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDZE QkIwN0NDNEYwREFEMDZFQTBBRkU0MUIwN0ExQUVBRUZCNDQ2NEUACgkQsHoa6u+0 Rk6D5RAAkgxL6H1KFjLBFdI2c7bVu8T1zHICKSw8dlW3y/xPTVtKtEIn3zDZqeuW a9DrxCSQs6XibXs0uPST2YnVZbAUGrJYbtrAxKzF2WvGjxDIhF8LkoWyvSaVPWaO rUWPsSVXK4bN/rPg/Imk0sQeAhtxRk7bVuDynpBbUIj8eHqIVBYepvLGK3Mt+Yv/ HEPkStTJD6htbKk+sWlXy6Bv6V+PCG+WjuD3g/c0g5BmB7Fb1kwR8pqOnPCJkZGZ mPHWaDGvPqMQS2cCWoU4KI9Swb13UtNHMqUcz58RPwhBVVNfqUuytwSrz20wvVOZ gZOhIKEas5sJ2xIiv41QhFQ9PPfEL9vzqtxL8UgQD1/l8266xU9HKe6h0JOZtij/ 5Wa7h829GbPz3O6O2yoG62pSCAUzHtKYPgdJSrzjM8nSlq0/u5rr0S35FOT2ZtOC TBpefPX4RhmTxIxnRlvVK3ihVr5VUYzhvBnrftev4kDeGz7H0b3DNFC/+qJakezb SJnux8cDgp/EIYaKVKh+181jrykTN2CFQlYZTTM5B/KcM4tLdoARBMtjnSKhj2P4 Sf9P5/q28an9VtUYdzlZbqPxfiyXj7DiMknOuTPMRmrQk2lgThoPbxJESCz9B8by WaIrhnOIVWkpU2brDxKIbm6O+kGR7I1oFqCrymRMIsVRPZAoo+Q= =IY+L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/7Aw3q.6vPHJgysQHlqlnd22--