From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D16A13832E for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:29:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B2B38E0A84; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:29:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oi0-f45.google.com (mail-oi0-f45.google.com [209.85.218.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31985E0A72 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:29:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi0-f45.google.com with SMTP id l203so31631404oib.1 for ; Fri, 05 Aug 2016 07:29:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=4DHs/sr2T4WWvGl4dfvxvKPyqar10NdlN9xjdaOUf8M=; b=iOK9AcNBF6yarJbcR2F2Jjn7RKfrZpDGOjuQeWwME37OtsLxTm4Rq0LkXbD//VqBo0 4HqWXY/PfjbE/HToVUBb1xHUVU9zPtzUy7ObJ+fDtQmY81fZXCKtA/uD+UE3JPhkhipL y2e6vZXJjShCrFUFvyTaXHf+tftMIqPsiMWSxV2OULqm77Opl4i6BSEdOd919T+9/C86 1YdneQolO6LkwcMXC3TGDhj50290xl69T+tG0UQe80lp9A5Aft+o3UqHelTUlUoOEP01 FLsqsM/BtZSyKAGax9cpapVy8jsNejrbX8lN2pcs1Cb3fjWUhxd5fLSXXKsU3h6YYKFS y4Jw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=4DHs/sr2T4WWvGl4dfvxvKPyqar10NdlN9xjdaOUf8M=; b=aNuoKY8MZ31mDJT8E0aD0eulM2d6P8CbB5ZI/k7NxSjVw/jb4Jz1ZrHiwGd+GNSny0 A2ohC53eFy67JDH8FqqCMX3ILWcp5N+jr9vIzfe70SNRwF8HQkvD2lsnpZUBiXm3TZFo gdvm5sw7p0JsGT2y8ENJIl0ZpjLlQnHK094OqKZmah16y+CRz2FOfyMJC7ljqWm6HO5/ WVd3zW7i4OvqjFVh3cqrWjocUKn+08JaWZ/ItmhEGhnI5CUpZ3R+RGqNG38Pa9jZjwBX Z6392CLCIaqA75Ia03MusDe5RDXkCtJ8+7q2cQJVpmqYJpyhx1MWAvSc7mQ2I734rmPu j99A== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkooutXhszoTHYz/3vphHpkkc5wJ4UMJQCn717Wwx4G7tyw/5j9eneHBYYweBbP0HOHLw== X-Received: by 10.157.48.112 with SMTP id w45mr50614048otd.153.1470407341970; Fri, 05 Aug 2016 07:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux1 (cpe-66-68-34-247.austin.res.rr.com. [66.68.34.247]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c184sm6476053oia.25.2016.08.05.07.29.00 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Aug 2016 07:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Sender: William Hubbs Received: (nullmailer pid 19199 invoked by uid 1000); Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:28:59 -0000 Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:28:59 -0500 From: William Hubbs To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2016-08-14 Message-ID: <20160805142859.GA19008@linux1> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <2e11e445-c25b-b7f2-def1-99aed92308b6@gentoo.org> <20160804162443.GA7048@whubbs1.gaikai.biz> <20160804231224.7b7462168f1d23e88fe4135c@gentoo.org> <20160804222234.GA8357@whubbs1.gaikai.biz> <20160805022658.GA15727@linux1> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Archives-Salt: 257020b8-674c-497d-917f-436b94b65bf0 X-Archives-Hash: e763cca5721472e1a0e44332f96cd0d0 --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Aug 05, 2016 at 06:57:59AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 10:26 PM, William Hubbs wrot= e: > > On Thu, Aug 04, 2016 at 07:25:52PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > >> > >> I'm mostly fine with that, but I'd add just a requirement that > >> somebody does a quick sanity check on an otherwise-stable system. The > >> 30 days of testing is really only testing against dependencies that > >> are in ~arch. Granted, that will become less of a concern if all > >> those dependencies are also making their way to stable. > > > > Repoman will complain loudly if you try to stabilize something that > > doesn't have all of its reverse dependencies stabilized, so I think we > > are safe as long as people listen to repoman. I'm not advocating > > stabilizing things with ~ reverse dependencies, just trying to find a > > way to move stabilization along better than it has been moving. > > >=20 > This only helps if the sanity check is correct. If a package has a > dependency on foo/bar, but it should have >=3Dfoo/bar-2, and ~arch is at > -2 and stable is at -1, then repoman will happily let you stabilize > your package even though it will break. Spending 30 days in testing > might or might not spot the issue, it depends on whether users running > mixed keywords test it. Since most testing users aren't running mixed > keywords they may not spot that the package breaks with bar-1. =20 I think if you are doing this sort of testing you need to run a mostly stable system. If you are running full ~, you definitely would miss issues like this. I, for one, do not run full ~. I would actually recommend for devs that they run stable on everything except packages they maintain. If you do that, you catch issues like this. *snip* > Are the older packages actually hurting anybody? For the most common > arch (amd64) maintainers can just stabilize their own packages, so old > stable packages shouldn't be hurting maintainers (or if they are it is > self-inflicted...). I don't have the numbers in front of me, but from what I hear recently amd64 has become one of the more lagging architectures. I don't know if it is because most of our devs are running full ~ and are not set up to test against stable or if, like some I've talked to, it is just that they prefer a second set of eyes to go over a package before it is stabilized. Besides our maintainers keeping old packages around, we are doing a disservice to our stable users by offering them old software instead of keeping them as current as possible. William --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlekoqYACgkQblQW9DDEZTgMbgCgrtNsOk9nTo5RsB43qjMa9+7K S0MAoKmtkleHlRIygIpa3VNjryniknC7 =5hMv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1--