From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697FD13888F for ; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:57:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2AC10E081D; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:57:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A195E0817 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:57:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [81.163.29.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: bircoph) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D0D8133BE05 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:57:19 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 21:56:52 +0300 From: Andrew Savchenko To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-10-11 Message-Id: <20151010215652.2a17b74b37de566dadab7b4f@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <5617AFD3.2040503@gentoo.org> References: <1904237.nU16iSOlTl@kailua> <20150930204510.7e0bd29f.mgorny@gentoo.org> <20151008154237.c5b94b546444d7204ab91a98@gentoo.org> <56166864.2050204@gentoo.org> <9C591B75-DE0D-4AB6-8A6E-89FA178513BF@gentoo.org> <5616855D.8000106@gentoo.org> <20151009042132.662d0925458f8804abcee442@gentoo.org> <56179764.7070902@gentoo.org> <56179BE3.1000708@gentoo.org> <56179DE5.40305@gentoo.org> <5617A264.1010900@gentoo.org> <5617A397.3020400@gentoo.org> <5617AB77.4050302@gentoo.org> <5617AFD3.2040503@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.4.1 (GTK+ 2.24.20; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="PGP-SHA512"; boundary="Signature=_Sat__10_Oct_2015_21_56_53_+0300_lg2+.Q0=.Dda.45k" X-Archives-Salt: fc7d70b7-ca76-4185-895a-6d2958368a77 X-Archives-Hash: 7068df3df89c869914028405dc716ee0 --Signature=_Sat__10_Oct_2015_21_56_53_+0300_lg2+.Q0=.Dda.45k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:15:15 +0200 hasufell wrote: > On 10/09/2015 01:56 PM, Anthony G. Basile wrote: > > Well let's think about this. If github went away, or we needed to part > > ways with github, what we would we want to keep from their site? >=20 > It is more likely that our infra servers go down or break than github. > From a reliability standpoint, our infra servers clearly lose. This is not a question of infrastructure high availability, this is a question of the data long-term availability. GitHub is outside of our control. If it perishes, we are in trouble, big trouble if we stored important data and had important workflow via GitHub only. And unfortunately the words above are not sheer speculation. 1) GitHub _was already blocked_ in several countries [1]. We are an international community, thus we can't rely on such resource. 2) Since GitHub is not completely open, it has a rist of following SourceForge fate. Before GitHub appeared SourceForge was probably the most popular development platform, at least 8-10 years ago. They were good guys. Later their owner changed, their policy changed, with known consequences: now SourceForge is known for its project hijacking [2] and adware. The worst result is that SourceForge is damaged good Free Software projects, e.g. GIMP [3] and now blocked by most anti-ads software [4,5].=20 And now GitHub are good guys. But for how long? I want to ensure long-time project stability of Gentoo, that's why I can't accept the violation of the Gentoo Social contract, which was made to protect the project from dangers alike this one. That's why we must have our own infrastructure. Please note, nobody says: you can use GitHub only overy my dead body. As can be seen from this discussion, there is a solution: all GitHub data must be mirrored on our infrastructure in a usable and searchable way, so that: 1) we will ensure long-time availability of all development data; 2) no single developer will be force to use GitHub to "politely review pull requests" or whatever. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_GitHub [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Controversies [3] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list/2015-May/msg00144.html [4] https://ma.ttias.be/ublock-origin-now-blocking-access-to-sourceforge/ [5] http://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/15/popular-software-projects-leave-sourceforg= e/ Best regards, Andrew Savchenko --Signature=_Sat__10_Oct_2015_21_56_53_+0300_lg2+.Q0=.Dda.45k Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWGV91AAoJEPZTWjO6HuSNRwMP/ijkpAC7SuwWc+RsnqT2awnd N0h6ndptFSP/5P/Oi3bP4dl/57hsJDX6i/tES1rDBKVv2SBZ5NSmH2aU1aeC/fJk gCd+5C5b5aIQjZA4ujJDDkvA8UEUQxd2rrI4gLCmK+mrldSIVvliT9MawOkIUrLD 4c15ijKiMOJ5dNZQ/y4+lyonhMB2lQeIP5byeQlEOc+9COlbThoX6RieysV7gYcp oWtnCgocZP5ZFEcHkAfBuiycYcEsYrPGg2zCrMLIMxq1S4Hj97cBjrBWPfGT14RN n2vYoG1ns0OdMkAB8aZaJXG+6SwvWEVIHrZ/R0b5eVpAjtoeymA3jWAdqE2qJY63 p3Uq9J/NEGQ8BVNmOCGavJt78L3PXzWW1Nc5qr/e3QxFA0mvtQXa2+u/RjUKu5g1 o8Q9Q5dVLBJ4JGuZHVxZclBzXO26uyufFJRb5IpOWWx8CNdiBYBNIriCba5EtN85 /6RM0StMzmUfxqUR6pBPsvYwFhOXi7FT8OvcBXM0UC9j2FXb/AgA82vDBJaoA4at irMjiOyv2NFbZsVBmmWmhzBBTvxIxrlnR48cIkuFw61+EGrjNI+iwLYwa5P3plHe eW4wNJUQW6nM3u8zjGyvD7t1tTDuWlAvj03kn1YdCsYZpsPtadEsnsgNmcn+8gx9 n0bgZjSjd9Z8KUsnSVe2 =TGh1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Sat__10_Oct_2015_21_56_53_+0300_lg2+.Q0=.Dda.45k--