From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD6313888F for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:42:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 002EDE07F7; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:42:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33333E07ED for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:42:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [91.246.82.32]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: bircoph) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D18B9340EE6 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:42:54 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 15:42:37 +0300 From: Andrew Savchenko To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-10-11 Message-Id: <20151008154237.c5b94b546444d7204ab91a98@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <20150930204510.7e0bd29f.mgorny@gentoo.org> References: <1904237.nU16iSOlTl@kailua> <20150930204510.7e0bd29f.mgorny@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.4.1 (GTK+ 2.24.20; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="PGP-SHA512"; boundary="Signature=_Thu__8_Oct_2015_15_42_37_+0300_SpayEHiRCsmFJsnq" X-Archives-Salt: 259988db-9f1e-461d-b320-562f6fb5cb67 X-Archives-Hash: 0b0de2aa096add876e17180b47b27334 --Signature=_Thu__8_Oct_2015_15_42_37_+0300_SpayEHiRCsmFJsnq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:45:10 +0200 Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > The second issue that may need Council's attention is developers' > attitude towards pull request source via GitHub. >=20 > One and a half month since enabling it, we already had almost 150 pull > requests from Gentoo users (and a few Gentoo developers who use this as > a collaboration tool). Sadly, some developers not only refuse to use > GitHub (which is an acceptable choice) but also have very negative > attitude towards users submitting pull requests and the developers > helping with them. >=20 > The point is, if we want users to submit pull requests, we should be > handling them. Then we can't really agree on some developer refusing to > look at the request, and requesting the user to re-send it some other, > less convenient way. Or another developer just silently ignoring every > request and rudely responding to pings. >=20 > Since the amount of work necessary to proxy between users > and developers who refuse to use GitHub is huge, I have prepared > a script that opens Bugzilla bugs for GitHub pull requests > and bidirectionally copies comments between them, therefore allowing > Gentoo developers to handle pull requests via Bugzilla at their > convenience. However, it is currently waiting for review and approval > by Robin before it will get deployed. >=20 > But even then, I need to make sure the developers will actually use it > politely. Developers can't really close those bugs 'because it's > GitHub', or 'attach a patch', or 'duplicate of #nnnnnn' (because > it's a synced bug, it can't be magically coerced into existing bug). > In fact, I mailed bug-wranglers about this already but I got no reply. I'd like to ask the Council to consider pros and cons of this issue with extreme care. Benefits and dangers of the integration with the proprietary GitHub service were discussed many times already, starting from [1]. While the GitHub integration allows to receive a bit more contributions, it contains long-term dangers of the Gentoo Social Contract violation and loosing independence of the infrastructure and the development workflow itself. I propose that we should draw a line which should not be crossed to satisfy both the Social Contract and freedom of people to use whatever tools they want, including GitHub. As a first approximation I suggest the following: All connections with external infrastructure should be done in a such way, that in case this external infrastructure will instantly and permanently disappear, we should not loss any valuable data and metadata, including commits, commit history, discussions, patches, issues, bug reports and so on. As far as I understand Mgorny's proposal, it implies that pull request issues and patches will be mirrored on bugzilla, but not patches themselves. In my opinion this is not acceptable, since violates both the Social Contract (by dependence on propietary metadata, such as GitHub issues (and pull request is a special type of issue on GitHub)) and Bugzilla's policy of having all patches attached to the Bugzilla. I honestly do not understand why developers should be forced to violate the Social contract under the excuse of "being polite" to GitHub contributors nor why such actions should be allowed at all. [1] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/27e8b99db6fcd2654fc2548a= 605f0b70 Best regards, Andrew Savchenko --Signature=_Thu__8_Oct_2015_15_42_37_+0300_SpayEHiRCsmFJsnq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWFmS9AAoJEPZTWjO6HuSNDJAP/A6WLmrF0Kv22ZZABlAhzLcn vyE0iygiuD7Q0cps3yB47G7Lp/3DTaggzrWxIj4awe86keZvSug3JA0Mait7mDgm wnXETe8Oigw5QFhdcL8qE+5tLk9UNx3Y+fSULokCZSIuDGJQXj8WU+axMSVmlWii ZOBBtmTKqnPeUfANToKlCpWT5LGSMcS/VO5/Ff+mPhhAF9pI+uhGiyO6neAF+hHd v8zAO/sEYkEoCqfa/obqWD8DhrkWquwHVWQgLbHkmQ8lcTKCfYTsgUg1O7QuzUKy uZuw1+C17GPY8lQigcsSD0ALmgFf5qZgWVY0w7pE341tGcI+zLgkfSun5ietvPh8 Do3YK5bV/rqypOP1hv1Cye4s+fGEDVGE7RttoTA3JF5rSXqF0QXE8GWAhE4XBMGY xeIh+KQP/4symuDaB41HJl/meMN5AcSNFBsz7ie3a5rhC9NLCDoGw0JTyqEmhKkO ykv5pcsbvC+fQjHH4Xu+swUodF7C7R65si/OzJoQMs5e8jwXLXXsy8pmln2HwNJO S6vyQVFceSItRaKoLSU+vqB3k+bBTlPQ56c3ua5Pgc75nS7VBn6dHpc1kS7gRkWc vfj/HIuNtyDnO+TQ3gYni6cnLEs+m8S6yZ7/89daY8xjOT2td9d6CaPrKetkZkra 56RMBYMmbf/iNoDR4ztW =FwUJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Thu__8_Oct_2015_15_42_37_+0300_SpayEHiRCsmFJsnq--