From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F33DF13877A for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 21:23:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CB9B2E080D; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 21:23:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from xavier.telenet-ops.be (xavier.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.52]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A55E080B for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 21:23:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gentoo.org ([94.226.51.153]) by xavier.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id PZPC1o00o3JKcCE01ZPCMJ; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:23:12 +0200 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 23:23:04 +0200 From: Tom Wijsman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Cc: hasufell@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council 2014 / 2015 election Message-ID: <20140707232304.449cb73d@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <53B9FAC7.9050001@gentoo.org> References: <539BD2E2.7030803@gentoo.org> <3677509.vVmt2iqRkA@kailua> <53B53E12.10209@opensource.dyc.edu> <1827087.o57vyRvkxh@kailua> <53B58E33.5010906@gentoo.org> <53B6834C.5050003@gentoo.org> <53B83BB5.9030609@gentoo.org> <53B92F00.2010502@gentoo.org> <53B9F093.1020106@gentoo.org> <53B9FAC7.9050001@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.23; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/eAmBu5vkAR6olFHJ_M_KvAu"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 35cc9095-ce9a-4220-bda2-0e43fb37c01b X-Archives-Hash: e11a4369e1b3415a95c36fc26825659c --Sig_/eAmBu5vkAR6olFHJ_M_KvAu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 01:41:27 +0000 hasufell wrote: > To make my point more clear: > The concept of only voting like an untouchable high council which you > need to address very formally doesn't work out (I am exaggerating). If you want to make it clear, please point out why it doesn't work out. > We need more moderation and preventive mediation. Even ComRel does not > get this done yet. They also seem to have a self-concept of staying in > the background until stuff explodes or until someone calls very loud > for them. > > Maybe I need a reality check, but I don't see that this has worked > out well. Moderation is human exception handling; given that this is about exceptions, this handling ideally occurs as little as possible. On the other end of the spectrum you have something like the police; proctors, something in between, has been tried but didn't succeed. > One of the bigger disagreements I see in the past is that the council > didn't intervene when we had the multilib war. It was _technically_ > all fine what had been done, but it was still a bad situation. But no > one addressed the council directly (some people didn't want to go for > a formal vote), so not much happened on that level. > > I don't think it's enough to only get involved if someone goes for a > formal council agenda item. Maybe that's exactly what the GLEP says, > but it's not enough to improve the anarchy here. That's because at that point in time nobody felt the exceptional need for contacting the Council; as they didn't deem it to be an exception at that point, as this "war" can also be interpreted as useful feedback. After a few iterations; recent threads for the migration were made without much disagreement, thus again there is no exceptional need. There are some human exceptions that could lead to ComRel or Council voting: 1. Someone becomes tired of it, thus attempts to escalate it. 2. Someone decides to revert the multilib migration without discussion. 3. The multilib migration continues when a lot of disagreement starts. A migration that nobody wants to halt doesn't need Council discussion; similarly, in the earlier iterations it isn't needed as long as the migration remains to be an idea that improves itself over time. > So... I'm glad about any person that tries to improve that part of the > council and wants to extend the self-concept of the council, even if > it's not within the official scope. There is an area outside the official scope, but I think it is limited. --=20 With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : TomWij@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D --Sig_/eAmBu5vkAR6olFHJ_M_KvAu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTuw+9AAoJEPWZc8roOL/QEz0H/RgoZizh0mfS/VFJJDX+eubR y4CQUmKDp4E49HYLJIFLX005KBx8gFT7T5tYvFXCeQjJY66lDlpLXQxmtxGlfB0x Aflub30lTk/djpZ2DfXciU+midWWOqQVuqZDuK3QY+g+ITNOe3W4+tOhf26uThHS nRQ1iLNiuv+YSviqDp5Q7VJolnwDdA+pdY+OKS20bOwyb2wdDH6I8j/CfZNMqMeY fn+w0m2nnQfDCpcyUJ+tNNwybXEiC1O2fHBb5Z5/vQIxvkiDVPkx5TgP0l8iWfTC 8bGh+EMwfggkC05zploZx6M+3ZSPHw6yaEm98BL87RbNHaTQSISg7dn9T0prQec= =Vt/c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/eAmBu5vkAR6olFHJ_M_KvAu--