On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 01:41:27 +0000
hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:

> To make my point more clear:
> The concept of only voting like an untouchable high council which you
> need to address very formally doesn't work out (I am exaggerating).

If you want to make it clear, please point out why it doesn't work out.

> We need more moderation and preventive mediation. Even ComRel does not
> get this done yet. They also seem to have a self-concept of staying in
> the background until stuff explodes or until someone calls very loud
> for them.
>
> Maybe I need a reality check, but I don't see that this has worked
> out well.

Moderation is human exception handling; given that this is about
exceptions, this handling ideally occurs as little as possible.

On the other end of the spectrum you have something like the police;
proctors, something in between, has been tried but didn't succeed.

> One of the bigger disagreements I see in the past is that the council
> didn't intervene when we had the multilib war. It was _technically_
> all fine what had been done, but it was still a bad situation. But no
> one addressed the council directly (some people didn't want to go for
> a formal vote), so not much happened on that level.
>
> I don't think it's enough to only get involved if someone goes for a
> formal council agenda item. Maybe that's exactly what the GLEP says,
> but it's not enough to improve the anarchy here.

That's because at that point in time nobody felt the exceptional need
for contacting the Council; as they didn't deem it to be an exception at
that point, as this "war" can also be interpreted as useful feedback.

After a few iterations; recent threads for the migration were made
without much disagreement, thus again there is no exceptional need.

There are some human exceptions that could lead to ComRel or Council
voting:

 1. Someone becomes tired of it, thus attempts to escalate it.

 2. Someone decides to revert the multilib migration without discussion.

 3. The multilib migration continues when a lot of disagreement starts.

A migration that nobody wants to halt doesn't need Council discussion;
similarly, in the earlier iterations it isn't needed as long as the
migration remains to be an idea that improves itself over time.

> So... I'm glad about any person that tries to improve that part of the
> council and wants to extend the self-concept of the council, even if
> it's not within the official scope.

There is an area outside the official scope, but I think it is limited.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D