[gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[Chris Reffett]

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All,
The monthly QA team meeting will be this coming Wednesday, March 19, at
1900 UTC in #gentoo-qa. The current agenda can be found at
https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda.
If you have a topic you want added, please reply to this email or poke
us in #gentoo-qa. As always, all are welcome to attend the meeting.

Chris Reffett
Gentoo QA Lead


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Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

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Chris Reffett:
> All, The monthly QA team meeting will be this coming Wednesday,
> March 19, at 1900 UTC in #gentoo-qa. The current agenda can be
> found at 
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda.
>
> 
If you have a topic you want added, please reply to this email or poke
> us in #gentoo-qa. As always, all are welcome to attend the
> meeting.
> 
> Chris Reffett Gentoo QA Lead
> 

Topic: hacked pkgconfig files

possible votes:
* ban any downstream modification
* ban non-trivial downstream modifications (like adding new files,
renaming files, adding variables, ...), but allow stuff like fixing
hardcoded libdir

references:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445618 (tracker)
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/81591 (dev ML discussion)
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=498416 (debian
breaking Makefiles for non-debian users)
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Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

Chris Reffett:
> All,
> The monthly QA team meeting will be this coming Wednesday, March 19, at
> 1900 UTC in #gentoo-qa. The current agenda can be found at
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda.
> If you have a topic you want added, please reply to this email or poke
> us in #gentoo-qa. As always, all are welcome to attend the meeting.
> 
> Chris Reffett
> Gentoo QA Lead
> 

I don't see the meeting summary yet.

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[Chris Reffett]

On March 28, 2014 5:18:57 PM EDT, hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
>Chris Reffett:
>> All,
>> The monthly QA team meeting will be this coming Wednesday, March 19,
>at
>> 1900 UTC in #gentoo-qa. The current agenda can be found at
>>
>https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda.
>> If you have a topic you want added, please reply to this email or
>poke
>> us in #gentoo-qa. As always, all are welcome to attend the meeting.
>> 
>> Chris Reffett
>> Gentoo QA Lead
>> 
>
>I don't see the meeting summary yet.

I haven't posted one yet due to lack of time and being out of town. One of the other team members can post it, or I can handle it this coming week.

Chris Reffett

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

Chris Reffett:
> 
> 
> On March 28, 2014 5:18:57 PM EDT, hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Chris Reffett:
>>> All,
>>> The monthly QA team meeting will be this coming Wednesday, March 19,
>> at
>>> 1900 UTC in #gentoo-qa. The current agenda can be found at
>>>
>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda.
>>> If you have a topic you want added, please reply to this email or
>> poke
>>> us in #gentoo-qa. As always, all are welcome to attend the meeting.
>>>
>>> Chris Reffett
>>> Gentoo QA Lead
>>>
>>
>> I don't see the meeting summary yet.
> 
> I haven't posted one yet due to lack of time and being out of town. One of the other team members can post it, or I can handle it this coming week.
> 
> Chris Reffett
> 


ping

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[Tom Wijsman]

On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 19:25:06 +0000
hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Chris Reffett:
> > 
> > 
> > On March 28, 2014 5:18:57 PM EDT, hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org>
> > wrote:
> >> Chris Reffett:
> >>> All,
> >>> The monthly QA team meeting will be this coming Wednesday, March
> >>> 19,
> >> at
> >>> 1900 UTC in #gentoo-qa. The current agenda can be found at
> >>>
> >> https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda.
> >>> If you have a topic you want added, please reply to this email or
> >> poke
> >>> us in #gentoo-qa. As always, all are welcome to attend the
> >>> meeting.
> >>>
> >>> Chris Reffett
> >>> Gentoo QA Lead
> >>>
> >>
> >> I don't see the meeting summary yet.
> > 
> > I haven't posted one yet due to lack of time and being out of town.
> > One of the other team members can post it, or I can handle it this
> > coming week.
> > 
> > Chris Reffett
> > 
> 
> ping

Note that the 19 March meeting was rescheduled to 26 March. The past
week has been a bit busy, thus I expect we'll have it up this week. If
not, there is already an agenda item to ensure it at the next meeting.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

Tom Wijsman:
> On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 19:25:06 +0000
> hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> Chris Reffett:
>>>
>>>
>>> On March 28, 2014 5:18:57 PM EDT, hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Chris Reffett:
>>>>> All,
>>>>> The monthly QA team meeting will be this coming Wednesday, March
>>>>> 19,
>>>> at
>>>>> 1900 UTC in #gentoo-qa. The current agenda can be found at
>>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda.
>>>>> If you have a topic you want added, please reply to this email or
>>>> poke
>>>>> us in #gentoo-qa. As always, all are welcome to attend the
>>>>> meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Reffett
>>>>> Gentoo QA Lead
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't see the meeting summary yet.
>>>
>>> I haven't posted one yet due to lack of time and being out of town.
>>> One of the other team members can post it, or I can handle it this
>>> coming week.
>>>
>>> Chris Reffett
>>>
>>
>> ping
> 
> Note that the 19 March meeting was rescheduled to 26 March. The past
> week has been a bit busy, thus I expect we'll have it up this week. If
> not, there is already an agenda item to ensure it at the next meeting.
> 

It is not there.

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[Tom Wijsman]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:50:02 +0000
hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Tom Wijsman:
> > 
> > Note that the 19 March meeting was rescheduled to 26 March. The past
> > week has been a bit busy, thus I expect we'll have it up this week.
> > If not, there is already an agenda item to ensure it at the next
> > meeting.
> > 
> 
> It is not there.

"What will we do about the missing QA meeting logs and summaries?"

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

Tom Wijsman:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:50:02 +0000
> hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> Tom Wijsman:
>>>
>>> Note that the 19 March meeting was rescheduled to 26 March. The past
>>> week has been a bit busy, thus I expect we'll have it up this week.
>>> If not, there is already an agenda item to ensure it at the next
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>
>> It is not there.
> 
> "What will we do about the missing QA meeting logs and summaries?"
> 
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda
> 

Great, make a vote and the problem will go away.

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[Tom Wijsman]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 15:42:35 +0000
hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Tom Wijsman:
> > On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:50:02 +0000
> > hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > 
> >> Tom Wijsman:
> >>>
> >>> Note that the 19 March meeting was rescheduled to 26 March. The
> >>> past week has been a bit busy, thus I expect we'll have it up
> >>> this week. If not, there is already an agenda item to ensure it
> >>> at the next meeting.
> >>>
> >>
> >> It is not there.
> > 
> > "What will we do about the missing QA meeting logs and summaries?"
> > 
> > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Agenda
> > 
> 
> Great, make a vote and the problem will go away.

We're doing it similar to the Council; one man has been assigned to do
the the previous meeting summary, another man volunteered for the
current meeting summary. Guess it will be done in the near future.

To make the problem go away forever; we would need to automate
summarization, but when trying to deploy an automated computer
system[1] to do the task it turned out that it summarized everything
but the agenda items (eg. that summer is on its way), so, we've got to
do it manually to assure a high quality of the meeting summaries.

 [1]: https://github.com/MojoJolo/textteaser

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
> To make the problem go away forever; we would need to automate
> summarization, but when trying to deploy an automated computer
> system[1] to do the task it turned out that it summarized everything
> but the agenda items (eg. that summer is on its way), so, we've got to
> do it manually to assure a high quality of the meeting summaries.

If people can't be bothered to post the decisions in a summary,
they're not going to be bothered to log them in some software tool.
There is no reason a summary needs to be more than a few sentences for
a typical meeting (if you're voting on something really complex, it
should have been posted beforehand for review, as with a
GLEP/code/etc).

In cases where I've struggled with getting summaries out for meetings
worthy of them in other settings, one trick is to compose them
on-screen during the meeting while everybody watches, such that the
only thing that needs to be done is hit save/send/etc when the meeting
is done.  With something like Webex this can be done by hitting
reply-all to the meeting invite and composing the summary on-screen in
the form of notes, and basically anybody can chime in if something is
wrong.

Some simpler options for making that work would include something like
Google Docs or Etherpad (the latter perhaps being more appropriate in
this case).  Indeed, when making proposals for votes people could
actually just paste them right into the etherpad instead of dumping
them into IRC (or you could paste them into both places).  Then the
votes could be summarized right there (heck, everybody could just type
their own votes in there).  When done you just post it wherever it
goes (wiki, whatever).

This might also help to keep people more engaged in the meeting, as
everybody is focused on the production of the summary, which is
ultimately the only thing anybody will remember of the meeting a week
later anyway.

Just a thought...

Rich

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

Tom Wijsman:
> 
> To make the problem go away forever;

Read the IRC log and make a summary? I had a proposal for the last
meeting and still don't know the result. It doesn't even show up in the
meeting agenda. So in case it was ignored I want to
a) complain
b) put it on the upcoming agenda

Do you hold the meetings in skype-sessions or via google-hangout?

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[Tom Wijsman]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:23:59 +0000
hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Tom Wijsman:
> > 
> > To make the problem go away forever;
> 
> Read the IRC log and make a summary?

Yes; it needs to happen during the meeting, instead of allowing delays.

> I had a proposal for the last
> meeting and still don't know the result. It doesn't even show up in
> the meeting agenda. So in case it was ignored I want to
> a) complain
> b) put it on the upcoming agenda

Option (b) has been applied.

> Do you hold the meetings in skype-sessions or via google-hangout?

They happen at #gentoo-qa in the Freenode IRC network.

Next meeting: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1800 UTC

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[David Abbott]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:23:59 +0000
> hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> Tom Wijsman:
>> >
>> > To make the problem go away forever;
>>
>> Read the IRC log and make a summary?

For the trustee meetings we just post the whole log [1]
[1] http://www.gentoo.org//foundation/en/minutes/2014/
That way no need to summarize, the reader can decide whats important to them.

>
> Yes; it needs to happen during the meeting, instead of allowing delays.
>
>> I had a proposal for the last
>> meeting and still don't know the result. It doesn't even show up in
>> the meeting agenda. So in case it was ignored I want to
>> a) complain
>> b) put it on the upcoming agenda
>
> Option (b) has been applied.
>
>> Do you hold the meetings in skype-sessions or via google-hangout?
>
> They happen at #gentoo-qa in the Freenode IRC network.
>
> Next meeting: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1800 UTC
>
> --
> With kind regards,
>
> Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
> Gentoo Developer
>
> E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
> GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
> GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
>

Regards,
David

-- 
David Abbott (dabbott)
Gentoo Foundation Secretary
http://dev.gentoo.org/~dabbott/

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

Tom Wijsman:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:23:59 +0000
> hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> Tom Wijsman:
>>>
>>> To make the problem go away forever;
>>
>> Read the IRC log and make a summary?
> 
> Yes; it needs to happen during the meeting, instead of allowing delays.
> 
>> I had a proposal for the last
>> meeting and still don't know the result. It doesn't even show up in
>> the meeting agenda. So in case it was ignored I want to
>> a) complain
>> b) put it on the upcoming agenda
> 
> Option (b) has been applied.
> 
>> Do you hold the meetings in skype-sessions or via google-hangout?
> 
> They happen at #gentoo-qa in the Freenode IRC network.
> 
> Next meeting: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1800 UTC
> 

I don't see that missing meeting logs have been discussed at all in the
previous meeting, unless I missed something. Also, I still don't see the
meeting log from march. If it is "lost" and you don't even know what you
voted on, then you should vote again.

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[Tom Wijsman]

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On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 21:13:35 +0000
hasufell <hasufell@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I don't see that missing meeting logs have been discussed at all in
> the previous meeting, unless I missed something. Also, I still don't
> see the meeting log from march.
 
Those that have stepped up need to add it, they seem busy; that came up
in the meeting before the previous meeting, which falls under that too.

What you were looking for is in the previous meeting summary:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Quality_Assurance/Meeting_Summaries#Summary_of_Wednesday_April_23.2C_2014

The status quo is kept, whilst encouraging to upstream the efforts and
look into discussing whether to prefix those that are locally modified;
to raise both upstream and the maintainer's awareness, without breakage.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

Tom Wijsman:
> What you were looking for is in the previous meeting summary:
> 

I am looking for the meeting summary of march.

Re: [gentoo-project] March 2014 QA team meeting

[hasufell]

hasufell:
> Tom Wijsman:
>> What you were looking for is in the previous meeting summary:
>>
> 
> I am looking for the meeting summary of march.
> 

ping