From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA05A1387FD for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2014 15:12:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DB37DE0B72; Mon, 7 Apr 2014 15:12:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f182.google.com (mail-wi0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19ABBE0B71 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2014 15:12:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f182.google.com with SMTP id d1so5226291wiv.15 for ; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 08:12:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type; bh=2AUUL9C456BT+QEEVfvNtOcf9qDcNIhutNbPZc24M1o=; b=l2vjmhrAcVa6wLLf+PLDDnmqiNO+X3x+SGREUd8+aEacqUUaacFbwIv6q8FUXH45mM Nlz+8MZBdFwSj9ZJe/zHghCTvHAqoEmk7eQXy8y2cbsNja9ZhHuYi7Exs+qDuzOktnKo D4yHQJ+s+vj/RGmz0EUTdfUzRUxsIXujn+aVq81C3P3ovWTo6AU9Tc3VqJcycDyFxb/M kfEQB88yPMpHZKx04XOAkJKN8aBX8XXCG8yCKf/BDnsB05XlPlPMt1uIcyAJuIf0XF+B IKak6k4VFnRekkp1sfE9YPfQLjoAT/bmPx3e2PS4XXZD5Fub7I8P/gJQEyFtUlpK0r5x 1rcA== X-Received: by 10.194.71.164 with SMTP id w4mr43354138wju.0.1396883551866; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 08:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (cpc3-broo7-2-0-cust157.14-2.cable.virginm.net. [86.30.224.158]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id cl9sm26918082wjc.25.2014.04.07.08.12.31 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Apr 2014 08:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 16:12:27 +0100 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2014-04-08 Message-ID: <20140407161227.4033ae74@googlemail.com> In-Reply-To: <5342BD2C.6010408@gentoo.org> References: <53342A5F.70903@gentoo.org> <1782441.9eOmMZnMZL@localhost> <53425BA4.8010205@gentoo.org> <1818441.m608ytuvnA@localhost> <53429203.8090208@gentoo.org> <20140407154905.2101b686@googlemail.com> <5342BD2C.6010408@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.3 (GTK+ 2.24.23; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Sig_/Wb9K1SMH5uN8sTMpW1/M_gf"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: f8b1f3cc-cceb-4d69-b755-be0ed5322d86 X-Archives-Hash: 99021e791b71432cb7af68dc4bee65cb --Sig_/Wb9K1SMH5uN8sTMpW1/M_gf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 17:58:52 +0300 Samuli Suominen wrote: > On 07/04/14 17:49, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > > On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:54:43 +0300 > > Samuli Suominen wrote: > >> You can get me to change mind by writing up a policy that says > >> dynamic deps can't be relied upon, and getting rest of the QA > >> team, perhaps council, on board with it. > > They can't be relied upon: they stop working as soon as you remove > > an ebuild from the tree when the user still has that version > > installed. They also don't work if you make changes to runtime > > dependencies that need a reinstall or upgrade, as has happened with > > various -config utilities. > > >=20 > Of course if reinstall or upgrade is required, then revision bump is > issued as normal. But we've seen this not happen: people have had old versions of a package installed that needed foo-config installed to do the uninstall (e.g. pkg_postrm), and then an eclass was changed to use foo2-config instead, and the uninstall or upgrade wouldn't work because foo-config had incorrectly been uninstalled. Dynamic dependencies do *not* mean dynamic pkg_* functions. > If the version isn't anymore in Portage, then user will be upgrading > into one that is anyway, and > the problem becomes moot. This isn't enforced, though. And see above: it's only moot if you ignore all the ways it goes wrong. > I'm aware it's not perfect, but it's the best we have. >=20 > I'm also aware of Paludis having more issues with it, than Portage, > IIRC, which is really irrelevant since > Portage is the official PM. No, this is not a flamebait, and I feel > like apologizing to you already, but that's just how I see it. >=20 > I'm arguing that working around the PM bug(s) by enforcing "a useless" > rebuilds for everyone, is not the solution. The bug is Portage sometimes doing dynamic deps... --=20 Ciaran McCreesh --Sig_/Wb9K1SMH5uN8sTMpW1/M_gf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlNCwF0ACgkQ96zL6DUtXhFsfQCgmTLmra3jEggB5gEIegKfuiJL TG0AoMEX+g0QRBKloTgcfntV0aFW0MaZ =nCRD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/Wb9K1SMH5uN8sTMpW1/M_gf--