From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D901B1387FD for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2014 16:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4C4CE0A99; Sun, 6 Apr 2014 16:31:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.telenet-ops.be (albert.telenet-ops.be [195.130.137.90]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160FAE0A87 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2014 16:31:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([94.226.55.127]) by albert.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id mgXT1n00a2khLEN06gXT1j; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 18:31:28 +0200 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 18:30:46 +0200 From: Tom Wijsman To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Cc: ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2014-04-08 Message-ID: <20140406183046.0253fab2@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <20140406164450.3d02667d@googlemail.com> References: <53342A5F.70903@gentoo.org> <201404061435.00789.dilfridge@gentoo.org> <53414CD2.4030100@gentoo.org> <53416E80.40605@gentoo.org> <20140406173152.5dc1cb8a@marga.jer-c2.orkz.net> <53417302.7040605@gentoo.org> <20140406164450.3d02667d@googlemail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.23; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/c5Qqs9v1vYunFt2xtLnWVBI"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: f7fc7a5a-7055-4b7e-8719-630ed9f9f78c X-Archives-Hash: e3f2fec1b9fedcafc26e935b8f9269d3 --Sig_/c5Qqs9v1vYunFt2xtLnWVBI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 16:44:50 +0100 Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 18:30:10 +0300 > Samuli Suominen wrote: > > On 06/04/14 18:31, Jeroen Roovers wrote: > > > On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 18:10:56 +0300 > > > Samuli Suominen wrote: > > > > > >> #gentoo-qa, today: > > >> > > >> 09:16 <@xiaomiao> if you don't ... well ... one dev more or less > > >> isn't *that* much difference, we can deal with it > > >> 09:17 <@xiaomiao> blah policy ... it took me months just to get > > >> PMS fixed with a two-line patch > > > Patrick has been around for years. :) > >=20 > > I didn't realize it was Patrick behind that nick. Seriously, now > > I'm even more disappointed than I was. >=20 > Why the surprise? It's a pretty safe bet that anyone who goes on > and on about "fixing" PMS or making things "match reality" is a card > carrying member of the troll brigade. +1 In the context of this discussion (dynamic deps, revbumps) one needs to recognize what the state we are in is, what problem has formed in that state and what the possible solutions are. Then bring those solutions up for consideration; and not just, "we now do it this way". Here an example for the context from which this sub thread resides: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D Situation =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D PMS says in 8.1 that dependencies must be installed and usable before a certain point in the merge or a batch of install: Build dependencies (DEPEND). These must be installed and usable before any of the ebuild src_* phase functions is executed. These may not be installed at all if a binary package is being merged. Runtime dependencies (RDEPEND). These must be installed and usable before the results of an ebuild merging are treated as usable. Post dependencies (PDEPEND). These must be installed at some point before the package manager finishes the batch of installs. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D Problem =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Developers sometimes need to adjust the dependencies; as they might have forgotten a runtime dependency, in which case they want to ensure that dependency is present on the system. As it is specified in the PMS, there's no way for that to happen in-place. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D Solutions =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1. Revision bump, such that the dependencies get installed. 2. Dynamic dependencies, such that the dependencies from the repository are always used and not those from /var/db/pkg/ 3. ... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D Thoughts =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Option (1) respects the PMS, but will cause some unnecessary rebuilds; whereas option (2), which is the default in Portage, ignores the PMS. Currently, people are doing both; this causes some more rebuilds on the users as well as packages breaking on other PMS consumers. Both solutions have their (dis)advantages; choosing one or the other, if necessary, will need some consideration. Besides that, it'll also touch basic questions like whether Gentoo is still a meta distribution, whether the PMS still matters nowadays, whether the Portage tree needs to strictly respect the PMS (all consumers) or needs to respect only one PMS implementation (Portage). It's a recipe for discourse, bike shedding, (dis)agreements, ... --=20 With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : TomWij@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D --Sig_/c5Qqs9v1vYunFt2xtLnWVBI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTQYE7AAoJEPWZc8roOL/QZXMH/1jMeJwg9vf5HoishbQPYifC P8GlJo5rc/MJet0AjsIaUiW4ttUnL3bpHwiuQHRFCUNBfcZKtCpaURkJrLNpUbgS fwXzvvwZYuCvjDRAlaZUN0KPIqdnVy3J+gAn9+xJJ/sXEfUPkT6e2nhfaqSLcydj W9DCw69CdsmVZM/IEmeZvNNUyqRh9Iee8cFuIdNCmHy+VXg6tXkaDs6EsICb3zZp Ee/T8RZEPXYC8n1v4FG/yMGOHusyMQ0uSjIPDts8WOVahgGJzXQKLPzncpDCyplD pjiC1lI6ki5TP8373yIDA9AA0bmYvGnP9f0vsVYYGrG5tqJbX+zccaRgfbGCfDk= =zPUk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/c5Qqs9v1vYunFt2xtLnWVBI--