From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF1501381F3 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:02:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 159B9E0B34; Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:02:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CFBBE0AB2 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:02:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix, from userid 617) id 809EC33EB20; Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:02:19 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:02:19 +0000 From: Sven Vermeulen To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Daunting developer process? (was Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting) 2013-09-10 Message-ID: <20130918080219.GA22806@gentoo.org> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <21020.30575.805569.383992@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <20130829152248.GA3432@shimane.bonyari.local> <1377796652.5477.15.camel@localhost> <1379258522.8240.3.camel@localhost> <523915A2.7090504@sporkbox.us> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <523915A2.7090504@sporkbox.us> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Archives-Salt: 304b2c4f-baba-4612-b9f8-509e893dae3f X-Archives-Hash: 9044aed84d94b15ff52ce77a81be875c On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 09:53:22PM -0500, Daniel Campbell wrote: > As a user, I've considered becoming a developer but the process is > rather contrived and multi-tiered. It doesn't seem like you're becoming > a developer through said process, but rather joining a fraternity. > There's lots of bureacracy involved that really turns prospective > developers off. I don't know how common it is, but if Gentoo has a lack > of developers, there must be a clear reason as to why. Clearly Gentoo > has a lot of avid users *and* developers, so if developers are needed, > perhaps the process to become a developer should be improved. Why else > would the distro be lacking devs if it has a bright and enthusiastic > userbase? The process looks daunting at first, but in my opinion it is not as "hard" as it is often seen. Yes, we work with questions & answers to make sure proper knowledge is in place. But these questions are not all that difficult if you already have experience with ebuild creation & development (assuming you're talking about the ebuild developer quizzes, not the staff quizzes). Of course, if you have no experience with it and want to get developer access, then immediately focusing on the quizzes is the wrong approach. Try to help where possible with bug fixing and contributing ebuilds - you don't need CVS (yeah, still CVS) access to do so. An important part of joining the Gentoo crew is to work with others - work with your mentor, interact with the recruiters, etc - because, as with every free software project, we are all a bunch of individuals whose actions can impact others. Gentoo currently has 245 active developers. That is not a small amount. Ubuntu is at 210, Debian has many more (I tried to parse http://www.debian.org/devel/people and was over 2000). Using a different approach to gain more developers might have more impact than you imagine on the quality of the distribution as well as the progress it makes. If the distribution would be 12 developers, it wouldn't be all that hard to make a good roadmap and focus areas. Twelve people can easily decide amongst each other what to do. But 200+ developers is a different ballgame (hence the need for "bureaucratic" things like the Gentoo Council) where decisions need to be weighted and where every individual can contribute (or block) to the progress of the distribution. Imagine what would happen if we had 500+ developers. Wkr, Sven Vermeulen