[gentoo-project] Stabilization process addition: Announcements about required manual intervention

[gentoo-project] Stabilization process addition: Announcements about required manual intervention

[AllenJB]

Hi all,

I would like to suggest that as part of the stabilization process, 
developers are required to (get PR to) make an announcement about any 
manual intervention that (might be) required on a stable system.

At the moment, this would include most blocks (eg. the recent e2fsprogs 
block) and issues such as the firefox/xulrunner use flag issue.

These announcements should appear on the gentoo.org front page, 
gentoo-announce list and the announcements forum.

The announcement should appear before the first (affected) architecture 
stabilizes the package.

I think this would help alleviate the load of those helping in the 
forums, irc and mailing lists as well as probably reduce the number of 
unnecessarily created bugs.

Obviously the need for these announcements will be drastically reduced 
with the stabilization of portage 2.1.6 / 2.2, but I suspect there will 
still be things which they can not handle automatically.

AllenJB

Re: [gentoo-project] Stabilization process addition: Announcements about required manual intervention

[Zac Medico]

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AllenJB wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to suggest that as part of the stabilization process,
> developers are required to (get PR to) make an announcement about any
> manual intervention that (might be) required on a stable system.
> 
> At the moment, this would include most blocks (eg. the recent e2fsprogs
> block) and issues such as the firefox/xulrunner use flag issue.
> 
> These announcements should appear on the gentoo.org front page,
> gentoo-announce list and the announcements forum.
> 
> The announcement should appear before the first (affected) architecture
> stabilizes the package.
> 
> I think this would help alleviate the load of those helping in the
> forums, irc and mailing lists as well as probably reduce the number of
> unnecessarily created bugs.
> 
> Obviously the need for these announcements will be drastically reduced
> with the stabilization of portage 2.1.6 / 2.2, but I suspect there will
> still be things which they can not handle automatically.
> 
> AllenJB
> 
> 

You can use GLEP 42 news items which are supported with portage-2.1.6:

  http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0042.html
- --
Thanks,
Zac
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Re: [gentoo-project] Stabilization process addition: Announcements about required manual intervention

[AllenJB]

...Which isn't stable yet, so stable users won't see them... if there 
even were any news items (I'm using portage 2.2, just sync'd and there 
are no news items listed).

I was aware of GLEP 42 but it's one of those things that seems to have 
existed in some form since I started using Gentoo several years ago and 
has never been implemented.

Given that it's apparently already in testing, when will developers 
start using this system? (And how will it be known if there are any 
issues with it if it hasn't been used on the live tree before 2.1.6 goes 
stable?)

And who is going to make sure that developers are using it to keep users 
informed of (potential) issues?

Also, will news items be posted to a web page, forum or mailing list in 
addition so that they can be easily linked to from forums / irc / 
mailing lists and users can see issues coming in advance if they don't 
sync particularly frequently?

AllenJB

Zac Medico wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> AllenJB wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I would like to suggest that as part of the stabilization process,
>> developers are required to (get PR to) make an announcement about any
>> manual intervention that (might be) required on a stable system.
>>
>> At the moment, this would include most blocks (eg. the recent e2fsprogs
>> block) and issues such as the firefox/xulrunner use flag issue.
>>
>> These announcements should appear on the gentoo.org front page,
>> gentoo-announce list and the announcements forum.
>>
>> The announcement should appear before the first (affected) architecture
>> stabilizes the package.
>>
>> I think this would help alleviate the load of those helping in the
>> forums, irc and mailing lists as well as probably reduce the number of
>> unnecessarily created bugs.
>>
>> Obviously the need for these announcements will be drastically reduced
>> with the stabilization of portage 2.1.6 / 2.2, but I suspect there will
>> still be things which they can not handle automatically.
>>
>> AllenJB
>>
>>
> 
> You can use GLEP 42 news items which are supported with portage-2.1.6:
> 
>   http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0042.html
> - --
> Thanks,
> Zac
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> DesAoJc/L/WdORMZDKua+S9RbcrZeP4N
> =gdrX
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 

Re: [gentoo-project] Stabilization process addition: Announcements about required manual intervention

[Dawid Węgliński]

On Monday 29 of December 2008 01:19:22 AllenJB wrote:
> ...Which isn't stable yet, so stable users won't see them...

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251812

Re: [gentoo-project] Stabilization process addition: Announcements about required manual intervention

[Alec Warner]

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 4:19 PM, AllenJB <gentoo-lists@allenjb.me.uk> wrote:
> ...Which isn't stable yet, so stable users won't see them... if there even
> were any news items (I'm using portage 2.2, just sync'd and there are no
> news items listed).
>
> I was aware of GLEP 42 but it's one of those things that seems to have
> existed in some form since I started using Gentoo several years ago and has
> never been implemented.
>

It was implemented a year ago and released only recently.

> Given that it's apparently already in testing, when will developers start
> using this system? (And how will it be known if there are any issues with it
> if it hasn't been used on the live tree before 2.1.6 goes stable?)
>

Probably once portage versions that support it are stable.

> And who is going to make sure that developers are using it to keep users
> informed of (potential) issues?
>

I think the idea of some kind of 'news police' is stupid.  Responsible
developers will write items, have them checked by someone and then
submit them.  Irresponsible developers will not.

> Also, will news items be posted to a web page, forum or mailing list in
> addition so that they can be easily linked to from forums / irc / mailing
> lists and users can see issues coming in advance if they don't sync
> particularly frequently?

Not at this time, but news items are easy to parse, file a bug if you
think this is useful.

-Alec

>
> AllenJB
>
> Zac Medico wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> AllenJB wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I would like to suggest that as part of the stabilization process,
>>> developers are required to (get PR to) make an announcement about any
>>> manual intervention that (might be) required on a stable system.
>>>
>>> At the moment, this would include most blocks (eg. the recent e2fsprogs
>>> block) and issues such as the firefox/xulrunner use flag issue.
>>>
>>> These announcements should appear on the gentoo.org front page,
>>> gentoo-announce list and the announcements forum.
>>>
>>> The announcement should appear before the first (affected) architecture
>>> stabilizes the package.
>>>
>>> I think this would help alleviate the load of those helping in the
>>> forums, irc and mailing lists as well as probably reduce the number of
>>> unnecessarily created bugs.
>>>
>>> Obviously the need for these announcements will be drastically reduced
>>> with the stabilization of portage 2.1.6 / 2.2, but I suspect there will
>>> still be things which they can not handle automatically.
>>>
>>> AllenJB
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You can use GLEP 42 news items which are supported with portage-2.1.6:
>>
>>  http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0042.html
>> - --
>> Thanks,
>> Zac
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>> DesAoJc/L/WdORMZDKua+S9RbcrZeP4N
>> =gdrX
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-project] Stabilization process addition: Announcements about required manual intervention

[Peter Volkov]

В Пнд, 29/12/2008 в 18:00 -0800, Alec Warner пишет:
> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 4:19 PM, AllenJB <gentoo-lists@allenjb.me.uk> wrote:
> > And who is going to make sure that developers are using it to keep users
> > informed of (potential) issues?
> 
> I think the idea of some kind of 'news police' is stupid. 

Why? Probably it's good idea to set guidelines on writing news items: to
write news item or elog suffice?

> Responsible developers will write items, have them checked by someone and then
> submit them. Irresponsible developers will not.

After we decide on guidelines (or policy), stabilization is the best
time to check that news item was written and in case it wasn't help
those developers who forgot or don't want to write news items...

-- 
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-project] Stabilization process addition: Announcements about required manual intervention

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On 18:00 Mon 29 Dec     , Alec Warner wrote:
> > And who is going to make sure that developers are using it to keep users
> > informed of (potential) issues?
> >
> 
> I think the idea of some kind of 'news police' is stupid.  Responsible
> developers will write items, have them checked by someone and then
> submit them.  Irresponsible developers will not.

I think keeping this informal is a good idea. Gentoo has a huge problem 
where people feel the need to write down every little detail and turn it 
into a policy instead of just using common sense.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com

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