[gentoo-project] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[gentoo-project] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Łukasz Damentko]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8, Size: 1540 bytes --]

Hi guys,

Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).

All nominations must be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list. If you
were nominated and want to run, you have to accept your nomination on
the same mailing list.

Here are the rules:

    *  Council elections generally happen once a year
    * The council is composed of seven elected members
    * Nominations are allowed from June 5th 0000 UTC to June 18th 2359 UTC
    * Only Gentoo developers may be nominated
    * Anyone can nominate (nominating yourself is OK)
    * Nominees must accept their nomination before voting begins
    * Voting is opened from June 21st 0000 UTC to July 4th 2359 UTC
      (there are two days of break between nominations and voting so
infra have time to set up everything)
    * Only Gentoo developers may vote
    * Gentoo uses the Condorcet method of voting

The page listing all nominations is here:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/voting-logs/council-2008-nominees.xml

If you don't know what the Gentoo Council is, you can read about it here:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

If you want to ask a question or share your thoughts, contact any of
the election officials:

Łukasz Damentko (rane)
Alec Warner (antarus)
Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto (jmbsvicetto)
Shyam Mani (fox2mike) will be doing infra magic.

You can send us an e-mail or find us on Freenode (#gentoo-elections,
#gentoo-dev, so on).

-- 

Łukasz Damentko
éí¢Šk¢7œ¶X¬¶È\x1ežÚ(¢¸&j)bž	b²

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Roy Bamford]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2008.06.05 01:00, Łukasz Damentko wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
> open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).

Team,

I don't want to nominate anyone who hasn't been nominated already.
I would like to address all the candidates who have or will accept 
council nominations.

1. Please tell us how/if you plan to fix GLEP 39. (You may not consider 
it broken)

2. As one of the first priorities will be setting policy for pending 
appeals what policy do you propose ?

3. If you are not on the council already, how will you make time for 
the extra work?

4. How do you think the council and trustees can work together to make 
Gentoo better?
Not just the code base but the cooperative environment we all work 
together in too. 
Disclosure - I have a personal interest in responses as a trustee.

5. Tell us a little about yourself - the skills and experience you can 
bring to the council?

6. Tell us one outstanding (in your own mind) contribution you made to 
Gentoo in the last year.

Any candidate who does not have time/interest to prepare a manifesto 
addressing the above and anything else they want to say to the 
electorate will have a hard time convincing me that they have the time/
interest to undertake the duties of a council member. 

I look forward to seeing links to your manifestos on 
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/voting-logs/council-2008-
nominees.xml


- -- 
Regards,

Roy Bamford
(NeddySeagoon) a member of
gentoo-ops
forum-mods
treecleaners
trustees

For the avoidance of doubt, I write as an individual developer and not 
on behalf of any project I may be a member of.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkhIMYQACgkQTE4/y7nJvasByACg24Z2Qw4OPMbLPAGwoRAG/8hG
rswAn3E/B28l95e2rHTbnHX8SKgWfVM1
=yVuz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Luca Barbato]

Roy Bamford wrote:
> On 2008.06.05 01:00, Aukasz Damentko wrote:
>> Hi guys,
> 
>> Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
>> open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).
> 
> Team,
> 
> I don't want to nominate anyone who hasn't been nominated already.
> I would like to address all the candidates who have or will accept 
> council nominations.
> 
> 1. Please tell us how/if you plan to fix GLEP 39. (You may not consider 
> it broken)

Alone you cannot do anything. Still I found that there are some parts 
unspecified like how many meetings and how a meeting has to be announced 
to be considered official that should be clarified.

> 2. As one of the first priorities will be setting policy for pending 
> appeals what policy do you propose ?

No changes are required in my opinion.

> 4. How do you think the council and trustees can work together to make 
> Gentoo better?

Trustees manage a local entity located in the USA, the council should 
manage Gentoo as whole. Can they work together to improve Gentoo? Well 
EVERY developer and to a minor degree every member of the Gentoo 
community should work together to improve Gentoo, usually do what's 
within their role. The foundation has to make sure our intellectual 
property won't get abused in the USA, has to defend our trademark and 
cope with the bureaucracy related. The Council has to forster activities 
within Gentoo, to solve deadlocks in discussions by having the last say.

My old manifesto is still valid =)

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo Council Member
Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Ferris McCormick]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:33:34 +0100
Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@gentoo.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 2008.06.05 01:00, Łukasz Damentko wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
> > open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).
> 
> Team,
> 
> I don't want to nominate anyone who hasn't been nominated already.
> I would like to address all the candidates who have or will accept 
> council nominations.
> 
> 1. Please tell us how/if you plan to fix GLEP 39. (You may not consider 
> it broken)
> 
Mostly it's not broken.  However, I think the intent of the rule
"If any meeting has less than 50% attendance by council members,..."
is to prevent the council from meeting without a quorum.  If at a
meeting they don't have a quorum and thus don't meet, I'd consider that
to be a non-meeting and treat those who did not make it just as "absent"
under normal meeting rules.

> 2. As one of the first priorities will be setting policy for pending 
> appeals what policy do you propose ?
>
Any developer making an appeal would explain why the appeal should be
successful using any information he chooses, then Council would decide
(deny, grant on the merits, grant on procedural grounds, whatever).
I'd also add two new requirements:
1.  Any appeal must be heard and decided within xxx days;
2.  Any Council member who is on record as to the merits of the action
being appealed could not take part in the appeal process unless the
developer making the appeal allows it.  Probably  this would mean a
discussion between that developer and the Council.
Of course Council members have opinions of devrel actions, but I think
it creates a potential conflict of interest if they broadcast them.
> 3. If you are not on the council already, how will you make time for 
> the extra work?

I already have the time, really.  Although I am a member of several
projects in Gentoo, right now only Trustees require much time.

> 4. How do you think the council and trustees can work together to make 
> Gentoo better?
> Not just the code base but the cooperative environment we all work 
> together in too. 
> Disclosure - I have a personal interest in responses as a trustee.
>

I'm already a trustee, so having a council member who is a trustee is
a start.
Trustees and Council together are responsible for the smooth working
of Gentoo, but with largely complementary areas of authority.  So I
think the two groups should begin by looking for places they both can
usefully contribute and work to put cooperation there in place (Code
of Conduct comes to mind because it applies to the entire community
but Council is pretty much limited to developers).  Then set out to
put such cooperation in place.
There's a lot of hand-waving in that statement because I don't have
any specific mechanism for carrying it out in mind.
Another idea is to sit down and look at just what Gentoo's business
model is.  We know there is one because the Foundation owns things
like trademarks or funds (as it must because you have to have some
sort of legal entity in place to do that).  But the Foundation is not
much involved directly in performing technical guidance, say (although
I can think of cases where it might be). I personally think it makes
sense to look at bringing the two closer together to look more like a
traditional business (although this is perhaps a minority view).  For
our continued health I think we have to work toward this goal.
> 5. Tell us a little about yourself - the skills and experience you can 
> bring to the council?
> 
I've been around for a long time in the business world as a developer,
manager, and lawyer. (I might actually be Gentoo's oldest
developer.)
I've been a Gentoo developer for a bit more than 4 years. In
Gentoo I'm sparc (architecture) lead, a trustee, and a member of devrel
and userrel.  I am no longer all that strong technically, but
I think I have a pretty good feel for how the software development
process works.  And both within Gentoo and in the real world I have
spent a lot of time working with people in areas like mediation or
management.  So I guess I'd say I'm a "people oriented" person with a
reasonable understanding of the development process, but certainly not
Gentoo's strongest technical person. 
> 6. Tell us one outstanding (in your own mind) contribution you made to 
> Gentoo in the last year.
> 
I am happiest with my part in making the Foundation legal
again.  I was elected sparc lead and elected to the trustees, but I
hardly view those as contributions.
> Any candidate who does not have time/interest to prepare a manifesto 
> addressing the above and anything else they want to say to the 
> electorate will have a hard time convincing me that they have the time/
> interest to undertake the duties of a council member. 
> 
> I look forward to seeing links to your manifestos on 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/voting-logs/council-2008-
> nominees.xml
> 
> 
I'll provide a link in the next week or so.  Most likely to a link to a
text file in d.g.o/~fmccor/
> - -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Roy Bamford
> (NeddySeagoon) a member of
> gentoo-ops
> forum-mods
> treecleaners
> trustees
> 
> For the avoidance of doubt, I write as an individual developer and not 
> on behalf of any project I may be a member of.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAkhIMYQACgkQTE4/y7nJvasByACg24Z2Qw4OPMbLPAGwoRAG/8hG
> rswAn3E/B28l95e2rHTbnHX8SKgWfVM1
> =yVuz
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> -- 
> gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
> 
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Ferris

- --
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Devrel, Userrel, Trustees)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkhIlNkACgkQQa6M3+I///eyggCeJFr83dO741dhyqHPDFrOH4Re
ERkAoIuTKJBhAPzP0oVhR2X8ldCzeN1U
=HFe9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Ferris McCormick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7965 bytes --]

After having written this, I realized I might be telegraphing a bit too
much in places.  So take the amplifications for what they are worth.
They are more "lawyer like" than my original response, but I don't see
how to put them into a manifesto.


On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 01:37 +0000, Ferris McCormick wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:33:34 +0100
> Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > On 2008.06.05 01:00, Łukasz Damentko wrote:
> > > Hi guys,
> > > 
> > > Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
> > > open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).
> > 
> > Team,
> > 
> > I don't want to nominate anyone who hasn't been nominated already.
> > I would like to address all the candidates who have or will accept 
> > council nominations.
> > 
> > 1. Please tell us how/if you plan to fix GLEP 39. (You may not consider 
> > it broken)
> > 
> Mostly it's not broken.  However, I think the intent of the rule
> "If any meeting has less than 50% attendance by council members,..."
> is to prevent the council from meeting without a quorum.  If at a
> meeting they don't have a quorum and thus don't meet, I'd consider that
> to be a non-meeting and treat those who did not make it just as "absent"
> under normal meeting rules.
> 
And the bit about hearing appeals assumes that devrel initiated the
disciplinary action being appealed.  I'd make it explicit that Council
is not itself a disciplinary body --- resolving conflicts is what devrel
is for among other things.

> > 2. As one of the first priorities will be setting policy for pending 
> > appeals what policy do you propose ?
> >
> Any developer making an appeal would explain why the appeal should be
> successful using any information he chooses, then Council would decide
> (deny, grant on the merits, grant on procedural grounds, whatever).
> I'd also add two new requirements:
> 1.  Any appeal must be heard and decided within xxx days;
> 2.  Any Council member who is on record as to the merits of the action
> being appealed could not take part in the appeal process unless the
> developer making the appeal allows it.  Probably  this would mean a
> discussion between that developer and the Council.
> Of course Council members have opinions of devrel actions, but I think
> it creates a potential conflict of interest if they broadcast them.

Plus a few more:
3.  When I say "explains" I mean publicly on IRC;
4.  And the explanation is a dialogue --- people may ask questions of
each other, request further information, and so on.
5.  Procedural grounds refers to failure to follow procedure, not
letting the developer appealing know what he's done to merit the
discipline, not giving the developer an opportunity to respond, and such
like.
6.  I don't see much merit in giving devrel a role in the appeal.
Whatever they have done should already have been documented.  However in
any specific appeal, Council should have the option to involve devrel.

> > 3. If you are not on the council already, how will you make time for 
> > the extra work?
> 
> I already have the time, really.  Although I am a member of several
> projects in Gentoo, right now only Trustees require much time.
> 
> > 4. How do you think the council and trustees can work together to make 
> > Gentoo better?
> > Not just the code base but the cooperative environment we all work 
> > together in too. 
> > Disclosure - I have a personal interest in responses as a trustee.
> >
> 
> I'm already a trustee, so having a council member who is a trustee is
> a start.
> Trustees and Council together are responsible for the smooth working
> of Gentoo, but with largely complementary areas of authority.  So I
> think the two groups should begin by looking for places they both can
> usefully contribute and work to put cooperation there in place (Code
> of Conduct comes to mind because it applies to the entire community
> but Council is pretty much limited to developers).  Then set out to
> put such cooperation in place.
> There's a lot of hand-waving in that statement because I don't have
> any specific mechanism for carrying it out in mind.
> Another idea is to sit down and look at just what Gentoo's business
> model is.  We know there is one because the Foundation owns things
> like trademarks or funds (as it must because you have to have some
> sort of legal entity in place to do that).  But the Foundation is not
> much involved directly in performing technical guidance, say (although
> I can think of cases where it might be). I personally think it makes
> sense to look at bringing the two closer together to look more like a
> traditional business (although this is perhaps a minority view).  For
> our continued health I think we have to work toward this goal.

This is badly stated.  Perhaps it would help if I mentioned that in my
view, Gentoo exists for its community, not just for the developers.

> > 5. Tell us a little about yourself - the skills and experience you can 
> > bring to the council?
> > 
> I've been around for a long time in the business world as a developer,
> manager, and lawyer. (I might actually be Gentoo's oldest
> developer.)
> I've been a Gentoo developer for a bit more than 4 years. In
> Gentoo I'm sparc (architecture) lead, a trustee, and a member of devrel
> and userrel.  I am no longer all that strong technically, but
> I think I have a pretty good feel for how the software development
> process works.  And both within Gentoo and in the real world I have
> spent a lot of time working with people in areas like mediation or
> management.  So I guess I'd say I'm a "people oriented" person with a
> reasonable understanding of the development process, but certainly not
> Gentoo's strongest technical person. 
> > 6. Tell us one outstanding (in your own mind) contribution you made to 
> > Gentoo in the last year.
> > 
> I am happiest with my part in making the Foundation legal
> again.  I was elected sparc lead and elected to the trustees, but I
> hardly view those as contributions.
> > Any candidate who does not have time/interest to prepare a manifesto 
> > addressing the above and anything else they want to say to the 
> > electorate will have a hard time convincing me that they have the time/
> > interest to undertake the duties of a council member. 
> > 
> > I look forward to seeing links to your manifestos on 
> > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/voting-logs/council-2008-
> > nominees.xml
> > 
> > 
> I'll provide a link in the next week or so.  Most likely to a link to a
> text file in d.g.o/~fmccor/
> > - -- 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Roy Bamford
> > (NeddySeagoon) a member of
> > gentoo-ops
> > forum-mods
> > treecleaners
> > trustees
> > 
> > For the avoidance of doubt, I write as an individual developer and not 
> > on behalf of any project I may be a member of.
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iEYEARECAAYFAkhIMYQACgkQTE4/y7nJvasByACg24Z2Qw4OPMbLPAGwoRAG/8hG
> > rswAn3E/B28l95e2rHTbnHX8SKgWfVM1
> > =yVuz
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > -- 
> > gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
> > 
> Hope this helps,
> Regards,
> Ferris
> 
> - --
> Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
> Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Devrel, Userrel, Trustees)
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAkhIlNkACgkQQa6M3+I///eyggCeJFr83dO741dhyqHPDFrOH4Re
> ERkAoIuTKJBhAPzP0oVhR2X8ldCzeN1U
> =HFe9
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Sorry for the double response,
Regards,
Ferris
-- 
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Donnie Berkholz]

On 13:32 Fri 06 Jun     , Ferris McCormick wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 01:37 +0000, Ferris McCormick wrote:
> And the bit about hearing appeals assumes that devrel initiated the
> disciplinary action being appealed.  I'd make it explicit that Council
> is not itself a disciplinary body --- resolving conflicts is what devrel
> is for among other things.

Yes, that is one thing devrel does. Devrel's authority to do this is 
delegated from the council, so it is also within the council's abilities 
if the council sees such action as necessary but not happening.

Thanks,
Donnie
-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Tiziano Müller]

Roy Bamford wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 2008.06.05 01:00, ?ukasz Damentko wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> 
>> Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
>> open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).
> 
> Team,
> 
> I don't want to nominate anyone who hasn't been nominated already.
> I would like to address all the candidates who have or will accept
> council nominations.
> 
> 1. Please tell us how/if you plan to fix GLEP 39. (You may not consider
> it broken)

a) A GLEP 39 is a "proposal" to do/implement something and should not be
used as a way to finally document something. So, if we want to fix it, we
should write down a new GLEP replacing GLEP 39 and then write that
information down where it belongs to: in proj/en/council (and/or the
developer handbook)

b) Reading GLEP 1 you'll see that there are only two types of
GLEPs: "Standards Track" and "Informational". One is for technical stuff
and the other for organizational, but: "Informational GLEPs do not
necessarily represent a Gentoo Linux community
consensus or recommendation, so users and implementors are free to ignore
Informational GLEPs or follow their advice."

So we either have to stop using GLEPs for such kind of "rules/definitions"
OR redefine how GLEPs should be used properly for changing organizational
processes.

We should finally stop doing cosmetic changes or we will forever struggle
with outside people who know our rules better than we and as a result waste
our time and energy and block our processes.

Cheers,
Tiziano


-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Tiziano Müller]

Roy Bamford wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 2008.06.05 01:00, ?ukasz Damentko wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> 
>> Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
>> open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).
> 
> Team,
> 
> I don't want to nominate anyone who hasn't been nominated already.
> I would like to address all the candidates who have or will accept
> council nominations.
> 
> 1. Please tell us how/if you plan to fix GLEP 39. (You may not consider
> it broken)
A GLEP should not be used directly to document our processes. We should
rather have policy files and GLEPs should be used to make changes to those.
After having written the policy file we can talk about fixing the things in
there.

> 
> 2. As one of the first priorities will be setting policy for pending
> appeals what policy do you propose ?
> 
> 3. If you are not on the council already, how will you make time for
> the extra work?
I have enough spare time for the countil. If not I'll step down as a
python-team member.

> 
> 4. How do you think the council and trustees can work together to make
> Gentoo better?
> Not just the code base but the cooperative environment we all work
> together in too.
> Disclosure - I have a personal interest in responses as a trustee.
I think we should write a policy because I still don't understand where
the "trustee-domain" starts and where it does intersect with
the "council-domain".

> 
> 5. Tell us a little about yourself - the skills and experience you can
> bring to the council?
Currently I'm studing physics at the University of Zurich, besides that I
work as a CIO in a small company (~30 people). Before that I was lead of
the C++ programming team in the same company for a year and I did a larger
database project at the University.
During my high school I was president of the students organisation for one
and a half year and Co-Administrator of the IT-Team.


> 
> 6. Tell us one outstanding (in your own mind) contribution you made to
> Gentoo in the last year.
The organization of the Gentoo booths at the OpenExpo Zurich and Bern.
The transition to the new slotted PostgreSQL ebuilds.

> 
> Any candidate who does not have time/interest to prepare a manifesto
> addressing the above and anything else they want to say to the
> electorate will have a hard time convincing me that they have the time/
> interest to undertake the duties of a council member.
> 
> I look forward to seeing links to your manifestos on
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/voting-logs/council-2008-
> nominees.xml

Stay tuned :-)


-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Marijn Schouten (hkBst)]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Roy Bamford wrote:
> On 2008.06.05 01:00, Aukasz Damentko wrote:
>> Hi guys,
> 
>> Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
>> open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).
> 
> Team,
> 
> I don't want to nominate anyone who hasn't been nominated already.
> I would like to address all the candidates who have or will accept 
> council nominations.

Gentoo and me
=============

I have been a developer since January 2007. I became involved to learn
and to help make sure that all things Lisp are easily available on
Gentoo. I have been Lisp Project lead since January 2008. Besides Lisp I
maintain some software that I feel should be available even though I do
not use it (much yet), such as SML implementations and lilypond. Guile
is one of the Scheme implementations I maintain.

Roy Bamford's questions
=======================

1. Please tell us how/if you plan to fix GLEP 39. (You may not consider
it broken)

I don't think it is broken.

2. As one of the first priorities will be setting policy for pending
appeals what policy do you propose ?

I do not like the way developers were expelled recently. For me at least
it came out of the blue and seemingly without any prior warning or
corrective action. I would like the whole process to be more careful.
Devrel should give one or maybe even two formal public warnings before
asking the council to expel a developer. The council should hold a
public hearing after examining the evidence and decide. I'd like all
recent 3 expulsions to be turned into first formal warnings. Any future
council could decide to reinstate an expelled developer. I don't think a
separate appeals process is necessary to handle this.

3. If you are not on the council already, how will you make time for
the extra work?

I will slack less.

4. How do you think the council and trustees can work together to make
Gentoo better?
Not just the code base but the cooperative environment we all work
together in too.
Disclosure - I have a personal interest in responses as a trustee.

I think it is the council's role to be the glue that binds us all
together. The council should also take responsibility for projects that
affect or represent all of Gentoo, such as PMS and releng. The council
should make sure that things are moving forward and that developers (and
users too) are not left wondering what is going on.

5. Tell us a little about yourself - the skills and experience you can
bring to the council?

I have the brains to quickly comprehend problems and to evaluate and
create solutions. I am not afraid to make mistakes or to admit that I am
wrong. I do not mind interacting with people that some find difficult.
With this skill I will try to bridge any fissures that divide us.

6. Tell us one outstanding (in your own mind) contribution you made to
Gentoo in the last year.

I have helped to build a small community of Gentoo Lispers by
encouraging and helping users in their studies and enabling them to
easily contribute through our git overlay and with their help I have
significantly increased the number of available recent versions of
Scheme implementations and related software. I have recently recruited
one of those users to become a developer.


- --
Marijn Schouten (hkBst), Gentoo Lisp project, Gentoo ML
<http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-{lisp,ml} on FreeNode
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkhc0esACgkQp/VmCx0OL2yk/ACggILwAT9KjoQCkgGxR+hR5fBe
W40AnjxzlnLf7HBiG5/1R6SdZwhpQ6/J
=nso7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Donnie Berkholz]

On 19:33 Thu 05 Jun     , Roy Bamford wrote:
> I don't want to nominate anyone who hasn't been nominated already.
> I would like to address all the candidates who have or will accept 
> council nominations.

I just got to this because I was on vacation and I've been busy getting 
work done since I got back.

> 1. Please tell us how/if you plan to fix GLEP 39. (You may not consider 
> it broken)

I think Rich Freeman made a good point -- having attendance requirements 
without requirements about method of notification is a problem.

> 2. As one of the first priorities will be setting policy for pending 
> appeals what policy do you propose ?

The one I already did propose and the council approved.

> 3. If you are not on the council already, how will you make time for 
> the extra work?

N/A -- although I will say that creating the agenda (with the included 
research) and chairing meetings is significantly more work than being 
any other council member at this point in time.

> 4. How do you think the council and trustees can work together to make 
> Gentoo better? Not just the code base but the cooperative environment 
> we all work together in too. Disclosure - I have a personal interest 
> in responses as a trustee.
> 
> 5. Tell us a little about yourself - the skills and experience you can 
> bring to the council?

- I stay calm under fire.

- I've got extensive training in problem solving and logical thought, 
from programming to journalism to my in-progress biochemistry Ph.D.

- "Strong opinions, weakly held." - A borrowed description I really like

- I write clearly and concisely.

- I recently had my 5-year anniversary as a Gentoo developer, and I'm 
among the most active devs.

> 6. Tell us one outstanding (in your own mind) contribution you made to 
> Gentoo in the last year.

If your X is still running, you already know. =)

Thanks,
Donnie
-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Richard Freeman]

Richard Brown wrote:
> 
> This was the first of many nominations for the incumbent council that
> gave no reason as to why they should be voted for in this election, as
> several of them have accepted their nominations with no further
> qualification, and flameeyes seems to think himself above having to
> justify why he should be elected, so I provide, for your
> entertainment, the following blog posts:
> 
> A Council of Successes: An attempt to analyze what the incumbent
> council have achieved during their tenure.
> http://arbearohooooen.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/a-council-of-successes/
> 

Moving this to -project since it doesn't really belong on -dev (well, 
none of this does other than for the instructions to post nominations on 
-dev).

Would I personally be happier if the council had done a little more that 
was solid - maybe.

Do I think that they basically got nothing done at all - no.

Here's my thinking:  This is a volunteer-based distro.  Such 
organizations are not best run by issuing edicts from the castle, but by 
influencing and building consensus.  Many of the issues that were 
brought to council were resolved on their own by discussion on -dev/etc. 
  For example, the whole slacker archs issue was probably brought up in 
reference to mips (although it isn't fair to single them out, I'll still 
use them as an example.  In part due to the discussion, mips decided to 
revert to a non-stable arch, which helped alleviate the problem.

My feeling is that problems getting solved without direct council 
involvement is a GOOD thing.  Now, maybe there are a few things that 
would benefit from a little more involvement.  I'd really like to see 
PMS continue to gain more official backing as it matures (although this 
has had some progress).

Also - many of the issues that have gone slowly aren't really technical 
in nature, but rather are policy-oriented.  This certainly is within the 
council's domain, but not necessarily what they have focused on in their 
developer careers with gentoo.  I've noted that they've been very 
accepting of ideas discussed on the lists, and that is a good place for 
them to be in.

My feeling is that maybe the council could have done more, but on the 
other hand I'd rather not see them issuing huge policy changes on a 
monthly basis.  Gentoo has room to improve but it isn't a distro in need 
of over-arching changes to be successful.

Here is a thought - maybe the council would be more active if we only 
put half the slots up for election every other year.  I think part of 
the problem is that with the council starting off new every year it 
takes some time for them to get a sense for their actual power.  1/6th 
of their meetings are either their first meeting or their last meeting - 
which aren't going to be big get-stuff-done meetings.
-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Donnie Berkholz]

On 21:22 Thu 05 Jun     , Richard Freeman wrote:
> Here is a thought - maybe the council would be more active if we only put 
> half the slots up for election every other year.  I think part of the 
> problem is that with the council starting off new every year it takes some 
> time for them to get a sense for their actual power.  1/6th of their 
> meetings are either their first meeting or their last meeting - which 
> aren't going to be big get-stuff-done meetings.

I agree with this. The lack of continuity is a major problem.

Thanks,
Donnie
-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Graham Murray]

Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> writes:

> On 21:22 Thu 05 Jun     , Richard Freeman wrote:
>> Here is a thought - maybe the council would be more active if we only put 
>> half the slots up for election every other year.  I think part of the 
>> problem is that with the council starting off new every year it takes some 
>> time for them to get a sense for their actual power.  1/6th of their 
>> meetings are either their first meeting or their last meeting - which 
>> aren't going to be big get-stuff-done meetings.
>
> I agree with this. The lack of continuity is a major problem.

So maybe the rules should be changed to make it more like the local
councils here in the UK. Each Councilor serves for more than one year
(typically 3 or 4) and so each year only a proportion of seats on the
council are up for election. 
-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-project] Re: Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[Tiziano Müller]

Graham Murray wrote:

> Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> writes:
> 
>> On 21:22 Thu 05 Jun     , Richard Freeman wrote:
>>> Here is a thought - maybe the council would be more active if we only
>>> put
>>> half the slots up for election every other year.  I think part of the
>>> problem is that with the council starting off new every year it takes
>>> some
>>> time for them to get a sense for their actual power.  1/6th of their
>>> meetings are either their first meeting or their last meeting - which
>>> aren't going to be big get-stuff-done meetings.
>>
>> I agree with this. The lack of continuity is a major problem.
> 
> So maybe the rules should be changed to make it more like the local
> councils here in the UK. Each Councilor serves for more than one year
> (typically 3 or 4) and so each year only a proportion of seats on the
> council are up for election.

I'd rather say that either the council people have to prepare themselves
better for the meetings or there must be more meetings.
This isn't politics but IT business. Changes are being made quickly and
easily. We don't need long processes but short ones. Voting every year
should encourage people to take that serious.

Cheers,
Tiziano


-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009

[George]

> Richard Brown wrote:
>
> This was the first of many nominations for the incumbent council that
> gave no reason as to why they should be voted for in this election, as
> several of them have accepted their nominations with no further
> qualification, and flameeyes seems to think himself above having to
> justify why he should be elected, so I provide, for your
> entertainment, the following blog posts:
>
> A Council of Successes: An attempt to analyze what the incumbent
> council have achieved during their tenure.
> http://arbearohooooen.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/a-council-of-successes/
>
Any blog post that calls the Council "pussies" should automatically get 
classed under "drivel"

Nice.
-- 
gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-project] Cross posting to multiple mailing lists

[Petteri Räty]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 821 bytes --]

Łukasz Damentko kirjoitti:
> Hi guys,
> 
> Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2008/2009 are open now and will be
> open for the next two weeks (until 23:59 UTC, 18/06/2008).
> 
> All nominations must be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list. If you
> were nominated and want to run, you have to accept your nomination on
> the same mailing list.
> 

This message was sent to four different mailing lists on and I am on all 
of them. I think this is unnecessary spam. People should use 
-dev-announce and the mailing list where the actual discussion is 
supposed to happen. You aren't reaching extra people with the other 
lists because every developer should be subscribed to -dev-announce. 
Maybe we should write some kind of a mailing list usage guide for 
developers somewhere?

Regards,
Petteri


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 260 bytes --]