Re: [gentoo-project] Appeals of Moderation Decisions

[desultory <desultory@gentoo.org>]

On 02/04/19 00:39, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sun, 2019-02-03 at 23:56 -0500, desultory wrote:
>> On 02/03/19 07:23, Michał Górny wrote:
>>> Dnia February 3, 2019 11:44:19 AM UTC, "Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>>>> Am Sonntag, 3. Februar 2019, 05:22:09 CET schrieb desultory:
>>>>>
>>>>> ComRel, as I have previously mentioned, engages in some extremely
>>>>> questionable practices, though  (again) to their credit at least they
>>>>> admit it.
>>>>
>>>> And parts of forums should rather go away sooner than later, given how
>>>> even 
>>>> moderators take part in highly questionable threads. That mess also
>>>> reflects 
>>>> on Gentoo as a whole.
>>>
>>> Given how separatist Forums tend to be, and how heavy they are on infra hardware (not to mention poor security record), maybe the best way forward would be to stop running official forums, and let forums team maintain their private universe of their own pockets.
>>>
>>
>> So suggesting that others should fulfill their roles before attempting
>> to subsume other's roles is now "separatist" instead of "sensible"?
> 
> No.  I believe that having a number of developers who practically never
> participate in Gentoo in other topics than directly related to Forums
> and who show up only whenever somebody else 'peeks their nose in' to
> make sure nothing ever changes is separatist.
> 
The correct term for your straw team would be isolationist
[def:isolationist] not separatist [def:separatist]. Regardless, your
straw team is indeed just that: a fictional dummy for you to besmirch
which has no relation to reality. Even though several members of the
forums project are members of no other project others are, and I would
hardly count being a project lead as uninvolved in their other project.
Even aside from that forums project members regularly assist ebuild
developers, recruited and not, in #gentoo-dev-help. And, in case you
missed it, also provide one of the two forms of user support actually
provided by Gentoo, which happens to involve some amount of interaction
with the user community. So the forums team is hardly a group of hermits
in a hollow somewhere "who show up only whenever somebody else 'peeks
their nose in'".

As for the " to make sure nothing ever changes" part of your
characterization, for one change for its own sake is pointless, for
another positive changes would be quite welcomed. The test server which
we had been promised some time ago would be a lovely positive change,
and it needn't even be on additional hardware.

Still, thank you for making it clear that you are trolling because of
another of your failed proposals [reporting] which I had pointed out
was, in the form you proposed, impractical and I had even suggested how
it could be amended to be practical while you even then engaged in
trolling. It seems that things would work much more smoothly around you
if you were to disabuse yourself of the notion that it is incumbent upon
 others, whether myself or anyone else, to fix, or worse implement
without fixing, anything that you propose.

Also, your prior characterization of the forums and "how heavy they are
on infra hardware" is distinctly curious in itself, as the hosting
provider where the forums are hosted specifically donated usage of the
hardware, hosting and upgrades specifically for the forums, and indeed
had as their one condition for the services of the four machines
initially donated was to have mention of their hosting service in the
page footer on the forums. Of the four systems originally *dedicated* to
the forums, three provide *any* forums services, while the other
provides front end services for other projects. This description leaving
out upgrades and such. So much for that characterization as well.

> And pointing CoC out at everybody who dares state disagreeing beliefs
> with you isn't helping any fruitful discussion.  Pretty much sounds like
> attempting to silence dissuading opinions, again to make sure nothing
> ever changes and Forums are beyond regular Gentoo 'politics'.
> 
If so, more's the pity.

You might have noticed that I pointed to the CoC when individuals made
comments which were materially counter to it, such as when a sitting
member of the council complained of how part of the forums reflects on
gentoo as a whole, then proceeded to make comments which were themselves
flaming and trolling, which itself does indeed reflect badly on Gentoo.
That being aside from the "nuked from orbit" comment which if taken as
being explicitly referential to the most common source [aliens] of that
meme would be openly libelous of everyone who has so much as posted
there, though it has become a common vernacular phrase which is largely
just a call for removal and is hardly even an emphatic form anymore.
Even his comment about the forums feeling like the evil mirror universe
would have been passable if he cited a reason, without that it is base
trolling and should be recognized for what it is.

If you want to argue a point, please do. If you can actually demonstrate
that I am wrong, by all means *convince* me. Just making sloppy,
unsupported arguments is not helping anyone.

[def:isolationist] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/isolationist
[def:separatist] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/separatist
[reporting]
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/5dd32dca6e48ea5f1db454d68f07f9ec
[aliens] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q