From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69B8F1382C5 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 20:14:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 409B5E08C3; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 20:14:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BAF1E0885 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 2020 20:14:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Sam James Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9CFCBCDE-D366-499F-8023-EE3ADF125EDC"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.20.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Shutting down the Off the Wall Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 20:14:41 +0000 References: <22332661.XsnlVU6TSb@tuxbrain> To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <22332661.XsnlVU6TSb@tuxbrain> Message-Id: <1EA853F1-9F7C-4DAD-965A-A7B1E4852893@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.20.0.2.21) X-Archives-Salt: f11cdee4-e3ef-4740-8ab1-44dc2c980f50 X-Archives-Hash: 4a59aa1301e3ab79e79ec3881c6779a0 --Apple-Mail=_9CFCBCDE-D366-499F-8023-EE3ADF125EDC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 8 Dec 2020, at 19:40, Andreas Sturmlechner = wrote: >=20 > On Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2020 14:02:09 CET Roy Bamford wrote: >> I think that you have missed the main point I was trying to make. >> The problem is the council destroying their own credibility. >> It just happens that the vehicle of choice is the forums OTW but it >> could hove been anything. >=20 > I can see that you *want* to make a point, but you're telling us that >=20 >> the initial report was an email to council on a closed list, with a >> CC: to the the forums team. >=20 > - when it was sent to -core (yes, a closed list), not council > - and forum-mods in CC: (but they won't reply because of 60s' = netiquette) > - neither is it 'the' initial report when we consider the 2019 = -project > thread that had remained unresolved > - ...which incidentally also did not get any more forum-mods = involvement with > exception of desultory (who seems to speak for all of them all the = time?) >=20 > At this point it should be clear that Gentoo devs have concerns about = one part > of the forums that go beyond reporting individual incidents and = nothing is > stopping forum mods from telling us about their plans, if they have = some, > while there even is some upgrade in development that might give new > possibilities. They should know best how to organise themselves, after = all, > and I don't see volunteers queueing up for them. Instead we have = desultory > going off on tangents and hardening some us-vs-them sentiment while = the next > Council meeting is approaching and this topic is very foreseeable - = and here > we are. >=20 > For me, with OTW hidden from public a minimum goal was met (and it = should have > happened a long time ago), but I can see why it is not enough for = others. The > trash produced in OTW by non-Gentoo-affiliated members is in no = relation to > the role it serves in keeping the support forums clean, and I doubt = you can > easily change such a long established subculture without making a = clean cut, > but you may as well prove me wrong. >=20 I=E2=80=99d just like to add that this reflects my views - and others I = know of - who just want a practical solution here, and are speaking based on real concerns = rather than some hidden motivation. I think the forums are valuable as a support venue and I just want to = move forward without deeply controversial content being associated with our = distribution - and understand the plans of the forum moderators in future. I look forward to hearing practical suggestions on moving forwarding and = assuaging our concerns from the forums team (in an accessible layout/format). > Regards Best, Sam --Apple-Mail=_9CFCBCDE-D366-499F-8023-EE3ADF125EDC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iNUEARYKAH0WIQSONjK3ErBA5VvN3hCxfj6E5hA8mwUCX8/esV8UgAAAAAAuAChp c3N1ZXItZnByQG5vdGF0aW9ucy5vcGVucGdwLmZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4ubmV0OEUz NjMyQjcxMkIwNDBFNTVCQ0RERTEwQjE3RTNFODRFNjEwM0M5QgAKCRCxfj6E5hA8 m1KSAQCHIT0PpoU5XiwNzZDipI8/ijnMbP+4ZneknY92OudwkwEAucnqvBKuic1H 3IMsenQyfNxfD2BrLM6ZAlZ89fkSPQE= =8iz+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_9CFCBCDE-D366-499F-8023-EE3ADF125EDC--