From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D7AC1382C5 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 02:38:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 230E8E08EC; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 02:38:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4BF5E08E5 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 02:38:57 +0000 (UTC) To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <46VMOZ54.H6K3WDDW.GVJ4SDQI@X7ZUXRCI.AYMFVOXG.BF2VNFXM> From: Thomas Deutschmann Organization: Gentoo Foundation, Inc Subject: Re: Shutting down the Off the Wall (was: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items ...) Message-ID: <191f08bb-2f08-a413-876b-ba01957142df@gentoo.org> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 03:38:50 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <46VMOZ54.H6K3WDDW.GVJ4SDQI@X7ZUXRCI.AYMFVOXG.BF2VNFXM> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="h0Ok7Rj9ao5SnHfntz8JFVmH2kETKs9hE" X-Archives-Salt: 2926642e-e2c4-4e7f-9832-fca8cd1519b8 X-Archives-Hash: 101441e1d085f6e63aed565ad1660b18 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --h0Ok7Rj9ao5SnHfntz8JFVmH2kETKs9hE Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CP0WurTz7O75BqlrtBv7LB7VX4NNbw8RQ"; protected-headers="v1" From: Thomas Deutschmann To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <191f08bb-2f08-a413-876b-ba01957142df@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: Shutting down the Off the Wall (was: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items ...) References: <46VMOZ54.H6K3WDDW.GVJ4SDQI@X7ZUXRCI.AYMFVOXG.BF2VNFXM> In-Reply-To: <46VMOZ54.H6K3WDDW.GVJ4SDQI@X7ZUXRCI.AYMFVOXG.BF2VNFXM> --CP0WurTz7O75BqlrtBv7LB7VX4NNbw8RQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On 2020-12-12 02:07, Roy Bamford wrote: > Does your post represent the council considered opinion or only > your own? At the moment I am speaking for myself. > Its a reasonable problem statement that the forums team can > work with to devise potential solutions. I discussed something > similar with dilfridge and k_f at FOSDEM 2019. >=20 > I have a major concern with the concept of the council > deciding to close any part of the forum. Its like this ... > At present, Gentoo is a common carrier, like the mail. > The content of letters and parcels is of little concern to the > carrier. >=20 > Gentoos status could be changed by a council decision to > close any part of the forum from common carrier to publisher, > were the council seen to be exercising editorial control. > Being a publisher makes Gentoo liable for the published > content. Gentoo could not run the forums at all under those > conditions. >=20 > Getting legal advice on that point and taking on the > resulting legal liabilities that result is a job for the > Foundation, not the council. > > [...] > > Can the council provide a problem statement that a least > a majority of the members support? Let's cool down the heated debate a bit. Anyone can bring up a topic to council at anytime. This also applies to=20 council members and nothing else has happened yet. I don't get your reference. Like said, this is not about free speech.=20 Not about section 230 currently discussed in the US: We as Gentoo community have created our code of conduct. The code of conduct we created should protect our values. This has nothing to do with liability. It doesn't matter if anything=20 which happened violates any law applying to Gentoo foundation or not. This is about our 'own' law we gave ourselves to protect the values we=20 believe in to run this Linux distribution and how we want to treat each=20 other while doing what we love. Don't you believe in our code of conduct? Don't you agree that from time to time, especially those active in the=20 OTW forum adopt the wrong tone and tend to offend people? I think you do. Like I hope every community member do. The current motion is about those few people (<20!) who don't. All of=20 them will have the chance to change their behavior in case they really=20 share our values. If they don't, those people no longer have a place in=20 our community. And that's also why I think you don't need any statement: A community member like you and me brought to everyone's attention that=20 there's a place in Gentoo forums where a minority of people violates our = code of conduct from time to time and want to stop that (and not for the = first time but hopefully for the last time!). We are currently in the process to find a solution for this. And=20 everyone in Gentoo is invited to join and help with that problem.=20 Especially the current forums team who usually do a great job. Of course, if nobody comes up with another, working, solution, like=20 said, we will have no choice but to close it. Please join the process. I think we all agree that we need to address=20 this problem because we believe in the values Gentoo is known for but we = can only do this together. --=20 Regards, Thomas Deutschmann / Gentoo Linux Developer C4DD 695F A713 8F24 2AA1 5638 5849 7EE5 1D5D 74A5 --CP0WurTz7O75BqlrtBv7LB7VX4NNbw8RQ-- --h0Ok7Rj9ao5SnHfntz8JFVmH2kETKs9hE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsB5BAABCAAjFiEEExKRzo+LDXJgXHuURObr3Jv2BVkFAl/ULToFAwAAAAAACgkQRObr3Jv2BVns XwgAipG1cexYFQ3b2zIUki5CSjMPJAFWcOfC1lSYrYKbfyvQsCbel8+oCvZOVQ+yOMUbi9Zapi5A hbZEdiaMQ90YzUPbQv3tHfoL9KHz+7xZoX3ggibgJI6U3Nm74knFgzqRivEHwMUl1BC8mhHCKHGW TFevH1SI2ZJiRG2G9csQtfKDXTz67K4CzESXWK7VbF/GAszGorISYkSxkhyo0xRkw0qd3bqRohxJ yMICH2vUaTkVMtJpkZRIiGl7+M8nH+AuRTc38rv7XL4kUjb667dm5FpmCksUrDg913L1ndkTl0Wv R5Bee3InrPb2HoJ/B3F7HwW7Idib5mhuQlp8G+MPJA== =ddwh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --h0Ok7Rj9ao5SnHfntz8JFVmH2kETKs9hE--