From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 169E0138334 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 00:23:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8CEC8E0877; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 00:23:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6148BE0876 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 00:23:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7BB215FA; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 20:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 10 Apr 2019 20:23:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=aMYkHZ Rg4rNQHoMwCI6E5BYUHau9JlEYFGhYy2SKyts=; b=LKt8RQAkEWWUnG134ytRct HhJG1a1RraoLvImnkKx19Wtp/VAYDkpt0eJvsz/a/1K3JHcIgIRskT3MYAa1VuID qDfYvNOkyBicB2praBHFB5rNqtNg0s/Tk26KCrHXpFNXVXsNGzeYPO4WVEtyJYiS aIZOYJI/LaS8l9cb07vVZR0DCC/yu2o29wcPZJwY+Gk+E+FZOl2gqRDyRjEUOYkY hUokCdPmx3bFkfjIGge+Xl9xxgM6ZrevSq4u4z7QkrMrhv0Aa/aD8eBluaS9v6On FxA/lQusWdWKJx8yYDZsvSzCqCQTqEBWv+87waZA1avKmMc8POZKzdZ5b3Yxpg3w == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrudekgddvkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefuvfhfhffkffggjggtsehgtderofdttdejnecuhfhrohhmpefiohhkthhurhhk ucgjuhhkshgvkhcuoehgohhkthhurhhksehgvghnthhoohdrohhrgheqnecukfhppedutd ejrdduheehrdegledruddvieenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepghhokhhtuhhr khesghgvnhhtohhordhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [107.155.49.126]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C34F01031A; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 20:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2019-04-14 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org, Alec Warner Cc: Ulrich Mueller References: <4bbfc34f-335f-5521-310a-b66ffd0d9a9a@gentoo.org> <5e30d658-80c8-b608-1505-dc08db3625bf@gentoo.org> <20190403174315.32615d3b9574571e3ed4a399@gentoo.org> <80ed2e482e96c96555bf4fd9331731c4c9ad0d7f.camel@gentoo.org> <232747ba-063c-821f-a66d-5f106ed2aa82@gentoo.org> <20190410062712.jvgec4vhpvvo2e6v@gentoo.org> From: Gokturk Yuksek Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=gokturk@gentoo.org; 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kvyOB8vXmSex+8pnqxYowl16P4dNAxBQaLg0WRDGy4bZvc7zoMJYgPXr/37rANVVCvVVK4P5 Rk/14eon2xiSaPNnMr6dGYRmaYiHmWD9Vapsi+tIA5W6No25j3X7ehlYGpkMTS6LjCJt8xKy h+opvyXxiUODckIGUPaurcG4ZRpHD4/N3T98VVAhU1A7mUP7vWCfsyAfEqihno5m7h2avg7L hQWRcmElkxxkrpXfC9JNWiTSs8ZZGLN1KdLAyfqozKrRGh3o0hpCLH4PH27utk5t5nPcqe9G oR5dTf/pil9/DurzQYGGkvsBtkmYFkj/3iL0Dodz8mtQMxv5NZ0J0lwY8eIMRi4wPXMdwTgE +78/mBdzpxh8Hy47zOvd3JlmOcKf3SNiAp71EgTzZ4dkMjwv2UKIkM3XBOBhZWeqYHBNqt+L nZr0h+nnxTJleBgtuRjPZs8A9H5WjJOXskinN033sQ== Message-ID: <179f75a3-4800-4f4b-967e-22eac9c3ebee@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 00:22:00 +0000 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LoBxEF35tcXNdxteQY01D0gTV3oGjR8pz" X-Archives-Salt: b53ee960-e277-4522-8c62-373bd2fd2fdc X-Archives-Hash: 8b0eef7a7da70f3f1b1d63233e12ab1c This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --LoBxEF35tcXNdxteQY01D0gTV3oGjR8pz Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="eLpMjvzcu8KGPGh3ib94PYnfoGscAY9xV"; protected-headers="v1" From: Gokturk Yuksek To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org, Alec Warner Cc: Ulrich Mueller Message-ID: <179f75a3-4800-4f4b-967e-22eac9c3ebee@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] call for agenda items -- council meeting 2019-04-14 References: <4bbfc34f-335f-5521-310a-b66ffd0d9a9a@gentoo.org> <5e30d658-80c8-b608-1505-dc08db3625bf@gentoo.org> <20190403174315.32615d3b9574571e3ed4a399@gentoo.org> <80ed2e482e96c96555bf4fd9331731c4c9ad0d7f.camel@gentoo.org> <232747ba-063c-821f-a66d-5f106ed2aa82@gentoo.org> <20190410062712.jvgec4vhpvvo2e6v@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --eLpMjvzcu8KGPGh3ib94PYnfoGscAY9xV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alec Warner: > On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 2:17 AM Alice Ferrazzi wrot= e: >=20 >> The 04/10/2019 07:59, Ulrich Mueller wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, Ulrich Mueller wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 09 Apr 2019, Gokturk Yuksek wrote: >>> >>>> I'd like to (informally) propose the following, for which I'm willin= g >>>> to formulate as a GLEP proposal if there is interest: >>> >>>> The Foundation has an established practice of storing the legal name= s >>>> of developers who join under a pseudonym. The infrastructure is >>>> already in place for this. I think that allowing these developers to= >>>> commit using their pseudonyms as long as the Foundation is informed >>>> their real identity does not exacerbate the legal risks they already= >>>> pose. The foundation may decide their arbitrary criteria on who is >>>> eligible for this type of protection, including requiring sound lega= l >>>> reasons for them to keep their identities hidden. I understand that >>>> the maintenance of this could be a burden for the Foundation in >>>> theory, but in practice I suspect this number is very low already. >>> >>> That doesn't work, because there would be no way for a person outside= of >>> the Foundation to verify such identities. >>> >> There is no way also for foundation to check all sign-off are assigned= >> to real legal names. >> >=20 > So these are two separate points. I don't quite understand Ulm's point = but > it is different than the point you are raising. >=20 > Your point seems to be that somehow the "Foundation must be able to che= ck > if all sign-offs are signed by a legal name." We already made it clear = we > don't do this checking. That doesn't mean its OK to use an pseudonym (i= t is > not, and doing so violates the policy.) If we later find out people vio= late > the policy, we don't accept commits from them anymore. You can call the= > system crappy or whatever, but its the system we have in place. today. >=20 > Ulm's point seems to be about transparency: "there would be no way for = a > person outside of the Foundation to verify such identities." I'm not su= re > the entire usefulness of such a use case (do people care about being ab= le > to do this?) >=20 > Putting the above points aside for a moment the Foundation has had a po= licy > of shielding specific contributors from having their identity made publ= ic. > I can't say with a straight face that "the infrastructure is already in= > place for this" (it really isn't) nor can I say that the Foundation has= any > written policies about how to safeguard, share, divulge, or otherwise u= se > this information and instead it has ridden on the spoken words of vario= us > Foundation officials in the past. Its not something I'd want to build u= pon. >=20 >=20 >>> To clarify, I won't be opposed against making a specific exception an= d >>> "grandfathering" any devs who had commit access before the cut-off da= te >>> when GLEP 76 was implemented. >>> >> >> I propose foundation to vote for add the use of pseudonym in the GLEP = 76. >> For keeping Gentoo a confortable and inclusive place. >> >>> However, going forward, we shouldn't allow any further exceptions fro= m >>> the real name policy. >>> >> >=20 > I'm not especially keen on grandfathering people into the project in th= is > way because I think it defers the problem. Pseudonymous contributors wa= nt > to contribute but cannot. Letting in people who happened to be contribu= tors > before glep 76 doesn't solve this problem, it just defers it in the hop= es > that new contributors who fall into this bucket get dissuaded before th= ey > push for changes. >=20 >=20 I see the concern of setting a precedent here. I also support more transparency, and am not advocating that we include more anonymous developers. I'd like to make a few clarifications: - I believe the necessity for a pseudonym must be justified to the Foundation. Therefore, I'm not suggesting that people should remain anonymous for arbitrary reasons. I am also **not** suggesting that we get rid of the DCO. - Grandfathering the existing devs does not set a precedent for future devs who'd like to join under a pseudonym. The situation is more complex than that: since users are not allowed to contribute under a pseudonym, they'd have to disclose their legal name even before they become a developer. In the rare case that a user with no contributions somehow finds a mentor and applies to become a dev, the recruitment process requires the candidate to submit a fix to an existing bug (unless this process has changed). The fix would naturally require them to disclose their real name, and would defeat the purpose of joining under a pseudonym. I hope this addresses the concern about setting a precedent. - I'm only advocating for repurposing an already existing system (that is the pseudonym mechanism offered by the Foundation) to bring back developers who have been impacted by GLEP 76, so long as they have valid reasons (based on what the Foundation deems "valid") to maintain their pseudonymity. As such, I expect the extra maintenance burden on the Foundation to be minimal and I'm willing to work out the details (such as what k_f brought up before). -- gokturk --eLpMjvzcu8KGPGh3ib94PYnfoGscAY9xV-- --LoBxEF35tcXNdxteQY01D0gTV3oGjR8pz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEED14mDxorHtjk0V2IYEuf/bfGVQcFAlyuiNsACgkQYEuf/bfG VQdXfAgAgVMQCa5vIuXvhs2VPal6tKumkGDA1/LmInMVR1QXQHP/pkHzCXCCcDaS XLlbJdg//uX2BSu6oRimfdx/m0t7Zu1z4RyYu862sckd+Q4UUG69ApPRh/ovp0ec fd/AqjfezSyIA1Jsty3T6qZleyLokm7KO6GfQQ9CdMq8j3Y+P1Xdkd4C3ZzUYJmf qaYfkc2asIikVf5678vh/d+XFXMeclqzFuTNwPbIJNEut4IYasR4NDq6HQvszG6n f2yRiB9AANQdn6CxMHgha3wzwcAleGMY28EgthbyZZreYD8YVodQrco9atzhlYhN Fr5d8qh3ZWeoEFcO0QdmG5HNYVEfeg== =bsLk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LoBxEF35tcXNdxteQY01D0gTV3oGjR8pz--