From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <gentoo-project+bounces-6573-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org> Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ABA8139694 for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Sun, 14 May 2017 01:48:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A223CE0BED; Sun, 14 May 2017 01:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from avasout01.plus.net (avasout01.plus.net [84.93.230.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A8CCE0BEA for <gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org>; Sun, 14 May 2017 01:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([146.198.40.10]) by avasout01 with smtp id L1oH1v0040D95ga011oJGF; Sun, 14 May 2017 02:48:18 +0100 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=ZeNtDodA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=yn+RW+FPi/EeJkSCDbeReQ==:117 a=yn+RW+FPi/EeJkSCDbeReQ==:17 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=7mOBRU54AAAA:8 a=9VWdFD7AR0swj7YIYkgA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=aymOKnqZEV0GRR7M2WwA:9 a=ONNS8QRKHyMA:10 a=wa9RWnbW_A1YIeRBVszw:22 From: "M. J. Everitt" <m.j.everitt@iee.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Items for Council Agenda, May 14 To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org References: <0ac908a7-9875-f629-fa0c-0c85945e1185@gentoo.org> <871srvx3o8.fsf@kestrel.kyomu.43-1.org> <20170511184513.3c2997a0@gentp.lnet> <CAGfcS_k3PQu49PA4JCuTrSjEkorDcZRqogxeuTYb5GcsPS+i4A@mail.gmail.com> <20170513212604.2276ee82@katipo2.lan> Openpgp: id=BA266E0525CFAB101523351B4C30334F93C22371 Message-ID: <141460cd-bd3d-ddfc-8e32-a2c0946f1d25@iee.org> Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 02:46:21 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-project+help@lists.gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-project+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-project+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list <gentoo-project.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170513212604.2276ee82@katipo2.lan> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QapeafohquFGe8I9mQB88WGfDbMIIOAqB" X-Archives-Salt: 4ff86386-48a1-4bf8-94f8-7c33fbae0245 X-Archives-Hash: 9594842c12e2fc9b4a49f3048f6aba15 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QapeafohquFGe8I9mQB88WGfDbMIIOAqB Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="v4lDloewNMgfh7Mv1Gm8tuxafsKwKcjJn" From: "M. J. Everitt" <m.j.everitt@iee.org> To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <141460cd-bd3d-ddfc-8e32-a2c0946f1d25@iee.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Items for Council Agenda, May 14 References: <0ac908a7-9875-f629-fa0c-0c85945e1185@gentoo.org> <871srvx3o8.fsf@kestrel.kyomu.43-1.org> <20170511184513.3c2997a0@gentp.lnet> <CAGfcS_k3PQu49PA4JCuTrSjEkorDcZRqogxeuTYb5GcsPS+i4A@mail.gmail.com> <20170513212604.2276ee82@katipo2.lan> In-Reply-To: <20170513212604.2276ee82@katipo2.lan> --v4lDloewNMgfh7Mv1Gm8tuxafsKwKcjJn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 13/05/17 10:26, Kent Fredric wrote: > On Thu, 11 May 2017 15:57:52 -0400 > Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote: > >> It is a bit of "we will not hide problems" vs "not hiding problems >> actually causes those problems." Suicide by social contract? > As an alternative approach, how easy is it to rewrite emails to inject > footer text? > > Like a bog standard: > > Problem with this email? Don't reply and make it worse. > Explore the alternatives: > http://someurl.gentoo.org/report?ml=3Dgentoo-dev&msgid=3D12345 > > Where the ml/msgid parts are filled in. > > That page can contain a list of options, including making a formal > complaint, but it can also help document and assist people with > avoiding seeing that email in future, including a list of instructions > for specific mail clients, pre-filled with tokens from the email > identified by the msgid. > > The idea is to lower the barrier to reporting your disapproval, or > lowering the barrier to making it so you don't have to see it any more.= > > We could, in theory, even extend this service to allow subscribers to > add gentoo-side filtering, wherein gentoo doesn't block the offending > user, but only blocks the relay of matching messages to subscribers who= > opted out. > > That way you're not relying on their MUA in any way. > > And that is far less "orwellian" in concept, but still has the desired > effect. > > Give users the power to do what they want, as opposed to isolating > users from everyone because a subset of users didn't like them. > > This should be trivial to achieve with the mailing list software .. I've seen similar done elsewhere. I think having a self-censorship mechanism is much better than a draconian 'thou shalt not....' system, and like other web platforms 'out there', can be quite effective. Even if there ends up being an option to 'refer to moderator' I think this is better & easier than requiring such a moderator to 'vet' everything that is posted, or blindly black-/white-listing with no automatic reset mechanism. Diversity and good automation should reduce this problem quite easily. 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