From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3DD13877A for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2014 14:52:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 27242E083E; Sun, 6 Jul 2014 14:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smarthost01d.mail.zen.net.uk (smarthost01d.mail.zen.net.uk [212.23.1.7]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826E9E083B for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2014 14:52:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [62.3.120.142] (helo=NeddySeagoon_Static) by smarthost01d.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X3nnP-000APW-AI for gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 06 Jul 2014 14:52:03 +0000 Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2014 15:51:47 +0100 From: Roy Bamford Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council 2014 / 2015 election To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: (from rich0@gentoo.org on Sun Jul 6 13:31:54 2014) X-Mailer: Balsa 2.4.14 Message-Id: <1404658322.27959.1@NeddySeagoon_Static> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Project discussion list X-BeenThere: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-tUapKqtETE9fo8KEj7MN" X-Originating-smarthost01d-IP: [62.3.120.142] X-Archives-Salt: 9b3242c4-a47e-4746-8f98-f195934d456f X-Archives-Hash: debbe3d058ff435176383110633d6440 --=-tUapKqtETE9fo8KEj7MN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2014.07.06 13:31, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Roy Bamford > wrote: > > > > ... but Gentoo has had no leadership since the council was formed > ... > > or even since drobbins left the first time. >=20 > I think you're confusing leadership with titles here. You can have=20 > an > official project leader who doesn't do any leading, and you can have > people doing leading without any title at all. >=20 > I would not say that Gentoo has been entirely bereft of leadership. > Look at where we are vs where we were in 2003. Do we really think > that we'd have deployed PMS and migrated to newer EAPIs without SOME > kind of leadership? >=20 > Many individual leaders promoting small projects that collectively > improve the distro is still leadership. >=20 > > > > The council is a technical disputes resolution body, that infers > that > > its forbidden to lead, since setting a direction (leadership) falls > way > > outside the councils terms of reference. >=20 > Frankly, I think we can do better than that. Sure, if nothing else > the Council can be a place to get a final vote on a dispute, but I > think that Council members ought to be trying to influence the > day-to-day direction of the distro. That isn't limited to > participating in email threads - their influence can be behind the > scenes, from taking the lead on projects, etc. When there is a > problem, step up and contribute! >=20 > > > > Probably just as well, since you can't lead by committee. You just > get > > a mess like the EU. >=20 > What you can't do is call passing resolutions leadership. As a > committee the Council votes on resolutions that we all agree to > follow. That is a necessary function of the Council, but it isn't > really leadership. Council members can and should lead in other=20 > ways. >=20 > And lots of people take on leadership roles in Gentoo without having > any title at all. Most FOSS projects are meritocracies, and we're no > different. When people see something good, they follow it. >=20 > You can't have a leader by appointing a leader. At best you can > assign a title to somebody who has already been doing the job. > Putting a mantle on somebody who hasn't already been a leader just > tends to lead to a lot of conflict. >=20 > That is one of the things that works well with our project system. > Devs self-assemble into small teams based on interest and they choose > their own leaders. Generally the job of the Council as a committee=20 > is > to stay out of their way, unless they're bumping into each other. > Leadership in an organization like ours usually doesn't consist of > issuing orders... >=20 > Rich >=20 >=20 Rich, I think we really agree. There has been lots of local leadership to=20 get things done by the people involved but no 'Gentoo the distro' level=20 leadership since drobbins left, as there was no longer any BDFL. Even drobbins only took an interest in some things, there was just too=20 much to do. The rest was left to the Top Level Project leads, which=20 gave way to the council when the TLP leads wasn't working any more. Its another question if the loss of 'Gentoo the distro' level=20 leadership matters as Gentoo has always been a loose collection of=20 projects anyway.=20 --=20 Regards, Roy Bamford (Neddyseagoon) a member of elections gentoo-ops forum-mods trustees = --=-tUapKqtETE9fo8KEj7MN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAABAgAGBQJTuWKSAAoJEFZf0zWq3OcJa2gP/RptjY+KrOJhvB2iZQM66X8O ItP9ejuCIm89vj1Q5k7E+2aEgChJy6ivvkpsdGkMeyT78Algj/RU68ykUW/Kn77V u+Lb+LWaU38XdvhB5fWQbCujJpmXn7n6iZLglXSl18+tvQm5PyaTAp0gVNm7QHg4 R/O6gHOFZyCYR1ZGaM3ZrTSQvpkXKQTrdAS6lkXNeklEgn6HpOl+d/3SkDIaoAaN /LbeU62ElQQ6yik/zyeSJGwhDpeIzMPBxTLco9/Gi/OYmVLqJ9PC9eUIAIkaarbH Rbl1DUpy6aDVCpMgO6ATO/gdEWz8/x+EN54hfEMaZ4aFsJRmAZY4bo0FUqIgpOaL EwHAHTUqE4dJne64R42xlY9VtA3o+grxCHd4xRhmPn/KvhsDLFajiRI9CmisQfoW v5/OM9qopBAP+V65UxFtKjTlTEEzYFO/PB3weqBvkFvbZN95Lk+on9FOKeNa4say 70/h+Ix2oDQXD2ntFckvTCVwfNWOP48uyNYhhf9oV/LwDv1tZ7PV1+GQqX5/A608 GfO4tKhff3y5NSsY0n8p3dNI2s1CasvqaPG3bBKLhRa+NFTyMKHhszz9pO3cfz4M hvRZnzoD1mifC3zAa6RZ2KPdLWNBZJQGK8uAyPGjg0ApwY+lDI4nnK39RmBEwSkw DD3579UUifatslSm8TBW =sdOT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tUapKqtETE9fo8KEj7MN--