[gentoo-project] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[gentoo-project] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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Hello.

The Developer Relations team just held its mandatory yearly election
(per GLEP39). The election resulted in the re-election of Petteri Räty
(betelgeuse) as the DevRel Lead.

Please join me in congratulating Petteri for his re-election.

- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
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[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[Ben de Groot]

On 23 July 2012 07:05, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
<jmbsvicetto@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> The Developer Relations team just held its mandatory yearly election
> (per GLEP39). The election resulted in the re-election of Petteri Räty
> (betelgeuse) as the DevRel Lead.

Since Council functions also as a "court of appeal" for DevRel, I would
like to see us adopt a policy that people cannot be a member of both
Council and DevRel. This would avoid any possible conflict of interest.

What do others think about this?
-- 
Cheers,

Ben | yngwin
Gentoo developer
Gentoo Qt project lead, Gentoo Wiki admin

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[Patrick Lauer]

On 07/23/12 13:00, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 23 July 2012 07:05, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
> <jmbsvicetto@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> The Developer Relations team just held its mandatory yearly election
>> (per GLEP39). The election resulted in the re-election of Petteri Räty
>> (betelgeuse) as the DevRel Lead.
> Since Council functions also as a "court of appeal" for DevRel, I would
> like to see us adopt a policy that people cannot be a member of both
> Council and DevRel. This would avoid any possible conflict of interest.
>
> What do others think about this?
Remembering the decimation of Kloeri in 2006 I'm strongly in favour of
such a policy.

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Since Council functions also as a "court of appeal" for DevRel, I would
> like to see us adopt a policy that people cannot be a member of both
> Council and DevRel. This would avoid any possible conflict of interest.
>
> What do others think about this?

I've spoken out against this before and will do so again.

1.  The council is elected and therefore has a mandate.  If you don't
trust somebody to exercise appropriate judgment in this capacity you
shouldn't be voting for them.

2.  Devrel is important and excluding those who the community have
decided most capable of leading the organization from it is only going
to make it weaker.

I never really got the conflict of interest thing.  A conflict of
interest is when somebody's own personal interests are in conflict
with those of the organization they are supposed to represent.  If a
member of infra recommends that Gentoo buy hosting at some company
they do work on the side for, then that is a conflict of interest
(which isn't to say that they can't be on infra - just that they need
to be very up-front about such things - conflicts can be mitigated).

Members of devrel don't personally benefit from making disciplinary
decisions, at least not usually.  Neither do council members.

Now you could argue that such a policy would make devrel and the
council more independent, but I'd argue that they're probably too
independent as it  is.  In most organizations the leadership at the
top sets the direction, and it is the job of everybody else to do
their part to keep the ship moving in that direction.  The idea that
individual projects within Gentoo should be operating in complete
autonomy and the council shouldn't get involved unless asked is
basically saying that we place little value on central leadership
(well, except when things blow up and people start openly debating
whether we should have a benevolent dictator - talk about bipolar).

I'd say that if anything the policy should be that Devrel as a team
can elect a proposed leader, but that the council should be required
to confirm this recommendation, and that they should have the power to
completely ignore it and appoint anyone else.  That's certainly how
most organizations run - the HR department at work doesn't just pick
its own manager and tell the CEO to buzz off if they meddle too much.

If the council isn't simply upholding the decisions of Devrel 99% of
the time then something is very wrong.  If Devrel really isn't doing
its job right then fix it, don't let it muddle along dragging people
through a big process that they ignore on the hope that they'll get
everything reversed on appeal.

For those inclined to point to courts where appeals are handled by
"independent" panels of judges keep in mind this independence is often
an illusion.  The lower court actually is governed by the higher one,
and while there are different people involved the lower judges can
lose their jobs if the higher ones don't like their rulings too often.
 These bodies are not independent - the one is completely subservient
to the other in just about every way.  The lower court really only
exists since the higher one is too busy to handle every case directly.

Rich

[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[Fabian Groffen]

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On 23-07-2012 13:00:48 +0800, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 23 July 2012 07:05, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
> <jmbsvicetto@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > The Developer Relations team just held its mandatory yearly election
> > (per GLEP39). The election resulted in the re-election of Petteri Räty
> > (betelgeuse) as the DevRel Lead.

Congrats Petteri!

> Since Council functions also as a "court of appeal" for DevRel, I would
> like to see us adopt a policy that people cannot be a member of both
> Council and DevRel. This would avoid any possible conflict of interest.
> 
> What do others think about this?

Some separation of this kind makes sense to me.  Not sure if it should
exclude someone to be on both entities, since most of the time, the work
is unrelated.


-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level

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Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[Matti Bickel]

On 07/23/2012 08:24 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
[conflict of interest]
> (which isn't to say that they can't be on infra - just that they 
> need to be very up-front about such things - conflicts can be 
> mitigated).

+1. I kind of take it for granted that we have grown up adults serving
for Council and DevRel. Adults that will abstain from voting on issues
they are personally involved in.

If we somehow managed to elect children with a childish grudge or if
they start to plot a hidden agenda - well, let's call to arms *if*
they do it. Until then, let them do the job they were elected for.

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[Roy Bamford]

On 2012.07.23 06:00, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 23 July 2012 07:05, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
> <jmbsvicetto@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > The Developer Relations team just held its mandatory yearly 
> election
> > (per GLEP39). The election resulted in the re-election of Petteri
> Räty
> > (betelgeuse) as the DevRel Lead.
> 
> Since Council functions also as a "court of appeal" for DevRel, I
> would
> like to see us adopt a policy that people cannot be a member of both
> Council and DevRel. This would avoid any possible conflict of
> interest.
> 
> What do others think about this?
> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ben | yngwin
> Gentoo developer
> Gentoo Qt project lead, Gentoo Wiki admin
> 
> 
> 

I don't see the conflict of interest is great enough so it can't be 
managed.  If Petteri is closely involved in a devrel decision that is 
appealed, he can excuse himself playing a part in the council 
consideration of the matter.

The single point of failure is a bigger issue for me. e.g.  Petteri 
is suddenly no longer able to contribute to Gentoo at all.

-- 
Regards,

Roy Bamford
(Neddyseagoon) a member of
elections
gentoo-ops
forum-mods
trustees

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-core] Petteri Räty (betelgeuse) re-elected as Developer Relations Lead

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On 02:24 Mon 23 Jul     , Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Since Council functions also as a "court of appeal" for DevRel, I would
> > like to see us adopt a policy that people cannot be a member of both
> > Council and DevRel. This would avoid any possible conflict of interest.
> >
> > What do others think about this?
> 
> I've spoken out against this before and will do so again.

+100 to all points.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Council Member / Sr. Developer, Gentoo Linux <http://dberkholz.com>
Analyst, RedMonk <http://redmonk.com/dberkholz/>

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