[gentoo-project] maintainer-wanted bugcount

[gentoo-project] maintainer-wanted bugcount

[Markus Ullmann]

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Hi fellows,

when taking a look at the open bug count for bugs assigned to
maintainer-wanted (2450 at the time of writing), it seems pretty obvious
that we really can't handle all of them, at least not without growing at
least two dozen devs to maintain it properly.

As I highly doubt this will happen within a week, we have to make a
decision how to proceed with this stuff. So what options do we have?
These come to mind:

a) WONTFIX them within 4 or 8 weeks without picking them up
b) reassign them to herds (some herds are on CC) and have them
   respond withing 4-8 weeks and give a yey or boo.
c) let interested users move it to sunrise (some of them are there)
   so that the ebuilds are at least at our QA level we maintain for
   gentoo-x86 and are there to be picked up by devs if they're
   interested

If you have more options or comments, I'd like to hear about them, as we
definitely have to do something there.
F'up is set to gentoo-project as this is more a political thing.

Greetz
-Jokey



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[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-wanted bugcount

[Donnie Berkholz]

On 10:46 Mon 26 Nov     , Markus Ullmann wrote:
> when taking a look at the open bug count for bugs assigned to
> maintainer-wanted (2450 at the time of writing), it seems pretty obvious
> that we really can't handle all of them, at least not without growing at
> least two dozen devs to maintain it properly.
> 
> As I highly doubt this will happen within a week, we have to make a
> decision how to proceed with this stuff. So what options do we have?
> These come to mind:
> 
> a) WONTFIX them within 4 or 8 weeks without picking them up
> b) reassign them to herds (some herds are on CC) and have them
>    respond withing 4-8 weeks and give a yey or boo.
> c) let interested users move it to sunrise (some of them are there)
>    so that the ebuilds are at least at our QA level we maintain for
>    gentoo-x86 and are there to be picked up by devs if they're
>    interested

What is bad about the current state of leaving maintainer-wanted bugs 
open? What problem is it causing that you want to fix?

Thanks,
Donnie
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Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-wanted bugcount

[Marijn Schouten (hkBst)]

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Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 10:46 Mon 26 Nov     , Markus Ullmann wrote:
>> when taking a look at the open bug count for bugs assigned to
>> maintainer-wanted (2450 at the time of writing), it seems pretty obvious
>> that we really can't handle all of them, at least not without growing at
>> least two dozen devs to maintain it properly.
>>
>> As I highly doubt this will happen within a week, we have to make a
>> decision how to proceed with this stuff. So what options do we have?
>> These come to mind:
>>
>> a) WONTFIX them within 4 or 8 weeks without picking them up
>> b) reassign them to herds (some herds are on CC) and have them
>>    respond withing 4-8 weeks and give a yey or boo.
>> c) let interested users move it to sunrise (some of them are there)
>>    so that the ebuilds are at least at our QA level we maintain for
>>    gentoo-x86 and are there to be picked up by devs if they're
>>    interested
> 
> What is bad about the current state of leaving maintainer-wanted bugs 
> open? What problem is it causing that you want to fix?

++, we should look at our prerecruitment process. Make it easier for
interested users to come into contact with the right herd/people, so that they
can be given simple tasks and guidance, learn and have fun.

Marijn

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Marijn Schouten (hkBst), Gentoo Lisp project, Gentoo ML
<http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-{lisp,ml} on FreeNode
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[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-wanted bugcount

[Markus Ullmann]

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Donnie Berkholz schrieb:
> What is bad about the current state of leaving maintainer-wanted bugs 
> open? What problem is it causing that you want to fix?

Currently a bunch of them are either
- dead upstream for quite some time
- don't work with a current system
- are replaced by better tools we already have in the tree

People put a lot of work into that, maybe it's their first ebuild) or
for some apps it's simply a hard job to hack up a working ebuild. When
that stuff then just bitrods without any notice, users become disappointed.

So two things are there to solve.


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[gentoo-project] Re: maintainer-wanted bugcount

[Markus Ullmann]

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K, to sum it up then, everything stays like it is atm.

Thanks for your comments :)

Greetz
-Jokey


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[gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] maintainer-wanted bugcount

[Steve Long]

Markus Ullmann wrote:
> Donnie Berkholz schrieb:
>> What is bad about the current state of leaving maintainer-wanted bugs
>> open? What problem is it causing that you want to fix?
> 
> Currently a bunch of them are either
> - dead upstream for quite some time
> - don't work with a current system
Those should just be closed WONTFIX then, surely?

> - are replaced by better tools we already have in the tree
>
I'd do the same for those, personally. I don't see the point if the packages
are not going to be brought into the tree, since there's no need for them.
There are plenty of other ebuilds to deal with, without getting into stuff
Gentoo already provides.

> People put a lot of work into that, maybe it's their first ebuild) or
> for some apps it's simply a hard job to hack up a working ebuild. When
> that stuff then just bitrods without any notice, users become
> disappointed.
> 
Agreed. This relates to the wider issue of prerecruitment that hkBst
mentioned. If the "collective web interface" idea is good, why not give it
encouragement? Or at least some constructive feedback if you don't like the
idea.

There doesn't seem to be much encouragement to users who try to help out
(with the odd exception, which stands out on the m-l simply because it is
so rare); rather there's more an attitude of snobbery, which is ironic
given how little coding is involved in ebuild maintenance, and frankly
seems bizarre given how overloaded you all are.

Although ofc that attitude is meted out to other devs as well. I dunno how
you all put up with it tbh; it certainly doesn't look fun from the outside.


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Re: [gentoo-project] maintainer-wanted bugcount

[Hans de Graaff]

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On Mon, 2007-11-26 at 14:12 +0100, Markus Ullmann wrote:
> Donnie Berkholz schrieb:
> > What is bad about the current state of leaving maintainer-wanted bugs 
> > open? What problem is it causing that you want to fix?
> 
> Currently a bunch of them are either
> - dead upstream for quite some time
> - don't work with a current system

As mentioned these should be closed as WONTFIX or CANTFIX. We'd need
people to go through bugzilla and have a look at all maintainer-wanted
bugs that are, say, more than one year old. 

I actually did look into this briefly a few months ago, based on the
same observation of so many maintainer-wanted bugs open. Based on
looking at some random bugs my observation was that most upstreams still
exist. Whether or not they are dead is another matter that requires some
more time, as does assessing if the package is still relevant for the
tree.

I'd be happy to revisit this and start combing bugzilla in a bit more
structured way and close maintainer-wanted bugs when applicable, but it
will be slow going. Any other volunteers? I imagine a quick write-up of
goals and "rules" a la treecleaners should be enough to kick this off.

Voting could really help to bring maintainer-wanted bugs to our
attention. Currently only 3 bugs have any votes for them. If more people
would dish out their votes it would become more clear which packages
would please a large number of people and there may be more incentive
for maintainers to take them.

Kind regards,

Hans

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[gentoo-project] Re: maintainer-wanted bugcount

[Steve Long]

Hans de Graaff wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-11-26 at 14:12 +0100, Markus Ullmann wrote:
> I actually did look into this briefly a few months ago, based on the
> same observation of so many maintainer-wanted bugs open. Based on
> looking at some random bugs my observation was that most upstreams still
> exist. Whether or not they are dead is another matter that requires some
> more time, as does assessing if the package is still relevant for the
> tree.
> 
> I'd be happy to revisit this and start combing bugzilla in a bit more
> structured way and close maintainer-wanted bugs when applicable, but it
> will be slow going. Any other volunteers? I imagine a quick write-up of
> goals and "rules" a la treecleaners should be enough to kick this off.
>
That's cool for the devs; I'm wondering if we can't bring users into helping
with bugs a bit more. I appreciate that there is a link to bug-wranglers,
but something like this is much more conducive to getting user help for the
stuff that clogs up bugzilla:
http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad
In particular, the triage guide at:
http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/TriageGuide
..seems like a really simple (in the sense that it's just a webpage) way to
get users to be a help rather than a hindrance.

A link to: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html would seem
useful as well.

How would the bug-wranglers feel about this; *plop* ?

> Voting could really help to bring maintainer-wanted bugs to our
> attention. Currently only 3 bugs have any votes for them. If more people
> would dish out their votes it would become more clear which packages
> would please a large number of people and there may be more incentive
> for maintainers to take them.
> 
Makes sense; maybe if a dev asked on the forums (Gentoo-chat would be best
imo) for users to vote on maintainer-wanted stuff they'd like? It's not a
guarantee that they'll get in, but at least it helps with this
housecleaning, gives some data for stuff that people can put into sunrise
if they want to start working on ebuilds, and lets users know they're
valued. We certainly value the work you do :-)

"If you treat your beta-testers as if they're your most valuable resource,
then they will respond by becoming your most valuable resource."
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/24325


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