Re: [gentoo-proctors] Proctors - An RFC about their role/powers

[Ranjit Singh <ranjit@sukhisoft.com>]

On Sunday 10 June 2007 10:47, Wulf C. Krueger wrote:
> > > Do we want/accept penalties/remedies crossing mediums? (Do we want a
> > > ban from forums to extend to bugzilla?)
> > Yes.
> No. If the offender does behave on other mediums, why should he be banned
> from those?
>
To make it simple, and to get across the message that appropriate behaviour is 
expected in all gentoo media. My personal opinion is that a higher standard 
should be expected of devs, so I'd support user bans in forums not applying, 
but not gentoo dev ones. They sign up to represent the distro, and the forum 
is to my mind the reason for gentoo's continued success. If a dev behaves so 
badly as to be banned on the user forum they have brought the office into 
disrepute. Devs can mouth off on -core or IRC in privacy, users have to 
interact via the forums.

> > > Do we want/accept permanent bans?
> > Yes.
> No! Everyone deserves another chance.
>
Sure, but after say a year of trying to get along with someone, if they 
persistently offend and show no sign of improving, at some point the sanction 
must be an option. If others feel differently and that's the consensus I 
won't complain however.

> > > What audience?
> > > Do we address users and devs? (council said everyone)
> > ++
> For devs we have DevRel.
>
Well, no offence, but it clearly hasn't proven enough. As was noted in a 
Council meeting, all the flames have involved a gentoo dev.

> > > What powers can/will the proctors have over devs?
> > What? As above.
> None.
>
OK we disagree on that one, fair enough. I would just point out again that 
it's the devs who seem to have the issue though, with the user forums and 
mailing list frankly embarrassing the dev m-l wrt civillity and usefulness.

> > > Do proctors act on devs directly or through devrel?
> > Directly with input from kloeri and g2boojum
> For obvious reasons (kloeri retired), there should be no personal
> involvement but groups only.
>
OK, but I think those two have useful knowledge and experience. I guess I was 
hoping kloeri would come back at some point, not necessarily to devrel. Even 
if he doesn't, I'm sure he could be prevailed upon to provide some strategic 
input, and I don't think gentoo should be above asking for his help.

> > > Are proctors elected or appointed and by whom?
> > Elected from pool: forum admins, devrel and council.
> Elected. From the developer community.
>
Well if that includes forum admins fine. Further, if you expect users to 
submit to their authority, we need some involvement in their election. Again 
I must point out that developer self-regulation simply has not worked. Maybe 
that's something to do with the purely voluntary nature of being a dev, but 
it still remains true, else the Council would not have instigated the proctor 
project.

> > > Who controls the proctors? (who watches the watchman?)
> > Er we do. Got it? :)
> The council and the developer community as they can vote for someone else
> for the next term.
>
Well again, I must point out users seem to behave better than devs, perhaps 
because they are not so involved. Further, I think there should be an appeals 
mechanism, which should be transparent and open, with input from users as 
well as devs. After all, devs tend to close ranks.

> > Flame on paludis minions!
> Would you kindly leave this out of here? Thanks!
>
Yes sorry. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Regards,
Ranjit.
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