[gentoo-pms] Moving PMS hosting

[gentoo-pms] Moving PMS hosting

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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When we originally moved PMS to be hosted on Gentoo hardware, we got a
number of guarantees regarding hosting, including that infra access
wouldn't get arbitrarily yanked with no notification. Since those
promises haven't been met, and accounts are mysteriously being locked
without anyone bothering to tell those involved, and I've no interest in
playing politics to try to find out who's monkeying around this time, we
need to find new hosting.

As previously discussed, I've created a Github repo which you can find
at:

    http://github.com/ciaranm/pms

Anyone who'd like to be added as a collaborator, please give me your
Github username. Alternatively, pull requests or format-patches are
fine too.

Any volunteers to update the project page and ebuilds? I'll ask infra
to remove the hosting on overlays.g.o once those're done to avoid
confusion.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-pms] Moving PMS hosting

[Robin H. Johnson]

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On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:05:36PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> When we originally moved PMS to be hosted on Gentoo hardware, we got a
> number of guarantees regarding hosting, including that infra access
> wouldn't get arbitrarily yanked with no notification.
"arbitrarily", "no notification"?
Bug #282470 (locked bug, you had access to it) was the userrel handling,
and they requested your account be locked for one week. The message is
clearly displayed when you login.

If that's "arbitrarily" in your opinion, then really your world-view is
far skew than I had previously thought. There is no great conspiracy.
The government isn't out to get you.

> Since those promises haven't been met, and accounts are mysteriously
> being locked without anyone bothering to tell those involved,
Userrel warned you, and asked me to cut off said access (Bug #285231 for
tracking it, with a due date for next week so that the block gets
removed), I did so this afternoon.

> and I've no interest in playing politics to try to find out who's
> monkeying around this time, we need to find new hosting.
> As previously discussed, I've created a Github repo which you can find
> at:
>     http://github.com/ciaranm/pms
Fine, go and use it. 
That sounds like a royal "we", as I don't think the actual project
members will be joining you.

> Any volunteers to update the project page and ebuilds? I'll ask infra
> to remove the hosting on overlays.g.o once those're done to avoid
> confusion.
No. Similar to SourceForge's policy of non-removal, we don't remove
prior work just because it's presently duplicated somewhere else.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Trustee & Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

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Re: [gentoo-pms] Moving PMS hosting

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:56:18 +0000
"Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:05:36PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > When we originally moved PMS to be hosted on Gentoo hardware, we
> > got a number of guarantees regarding hosting, including that infra
> > access wouldn't get arbitrarily yanked with no notification.
> "arbitrarily", "no notification"?
> Bug #282470 (locked bug, you had access to it) was the userrel
> handling, and they requested your account be locked for one week. The
> message is clearly displayed when you login.

No-one's mentioned anything about it to me. The first I find out about
it is when I try to log in and I'm told to look at bugs that I can't
view for an explanation.

This is exactly the kind of screwing around I don't want to have to
take part in.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-pms] Moving PMS hosting

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

> As previously discussed,

Where did such a discussion take place? I'm not aware of any. (Or do
you mean the one back in April, buried in the tread "Patches for your
reviewing pleasure"? Its outcome was different.)

> I've created a Github repo which you can find at:

>     http://github.com/ciaranm/pms

You shouldn't take such hasty and single-handed decisions. That you
got your bugzilla access suspended has nothing to do with the PMS
project.

The question is really what we want PMS to be. If it should be the
authoritative document describing package manager behaviour and repo
layout, then there's no alternative to hosting on Gentoo infra. If you
want it to decline to a "man page" (read the log of the last council
meeting), then go ahead and move it to Github.

So please reconsider.

> Any volunteers to update the project page and ebuilds? I'll ask
> infra to remove the hosting on overlays.g.o once those're done to
> avoid confusion.

If such a thing took place, it would be enough reason for me to resign
from the PMS project.

Ulrich

Re: [gentoo-pms] Moving PMS hosting

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 07:57:59 +0200
Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > As previously discussed,
> 
> Where did such a discussion take place? I'm not aware of any. (Or do
> you mean the one back in April, buried in the tread "Patches for your
> reviewing pleasure"? Its outcome was different.)

It happened the last time access privs started mysteriously
disappearing without any kind of communication.

> > I've created a Github repo which you can find at:
> 
> >     http://github.com/ciaranm/pms
> 
> You shouldn't take such hasty and single-handed decisions. That you
> got your bugzilla access suspended has nothing to do with the PMS
> project.

The problem isn't the access suspension, it's that I find out about it
by trying to log on to bugzilla and get told to look at two bugs that I
can't access, and then am leaked information about it by three different
Gentoo people all of whom say "I'm passing this on from a secret IRC
channel, so don't tell anyone it came from me". It's also because this
isn't the first time that this has happened.

> The question is really what we want PMS to be. If it should be the
> authoritative document describing package manager behaviour and repo
> layout, then there's no alternative to hosting on Gentoo infra. If you
> want it to decline to a "man page" (read the log of the last council
> meeting), then go ahead and move it to Github.

I want it to be somewhere where we can all work on it. That's the
important part.

As the people involved have come clean and admitted their mistake, and
presumably have updated their procedures so it won't happen again, I'll
happily let it slide this time if people prefer. Still, this kind of
thing really doesn't inspire confidence.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-pms] Moving PMS hosting

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

> As the people involved have come clean and admitted their mistake,
> and presumably have updated their procedures so it won't happen
> again, I'll happily let it slide this time if people prefer.

Please do.

And http://github.com/ciaranm/pms shouldn't present itself as official
Gentoo project. At least one dev was already confused by it (and asked
me on IRC).

In fact your earlier argument is valid:

> [...] remove the hosting [...] to avoid confusion.

Ulrich

Re: [gentoo-pms] Moving PMS hosting

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:49:27 +0200
Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > As the people involved have come clean and admitted their mistake,
> > and presumably have updated their procedures so it won't happen
> > again, I'll happily let it slide this time if people prefer.
> 
> Please do.
> 
> And http://github.com/ciaranm/pms shouldn't present itself as official
> Gentoo project. At least one dev was already confused by it (and asked
> me on IRC).
> 
> In fact your earlier argument is valid:
> 
> > [...] remove the hosting [...] to avoid confusion.

Alright. I've changed the description so it's clear it for works in
progress.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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