[gentoo-osx] Re: [Bug 107759] Gentoo for Mac OSX installer should be updated

[gentoo-osx] Re: [Bug 107759] Gentoo for Mac OSX installer should be updated

[Hasan Khalil]

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On Oct 1, 2005, at 11:25, kito@gentoo.org wrote:

> I would also like to offer a couple different installers, one  
> minimal(~500K, pretty much what we have
> now) as well as a 'full' install (~should be ~24MB, basically all  
> the utils that `emerge system` pulls in).

So you mean something like a Stage3? I think it would be good to  
discuss this on the ML, so here goes.

--

Hasan Khalil
Gentoo for Mac OS X



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Re: [gentoo-osx] Re: [Bug 107759] Gentoo for Mac OSX installer should be updated

[Grobian]

Hasan Khalil wrote:
> 
> On Oct 1, 2005, at 11:25, kito@gentoo.org wrote:
> 
>> I would also like to offer a couple different installers, one 
>> minimal(~500K, pretty much what we have
>> now) as well as a 'full' install (~should be ~24MB, basically all the 
>> utils that `emerge system` pulls in).
> 
> So you mean something like a Stage3? I think it would be good to discuss 
> this on the ML, so here goes.

I think it is an interesting idea, especially once we have prefixed 
installs and perl, python, etc. will all have to be compiled before 
portage will be happy.

I have been experimenting with 64-bits as well.  I was able to compile a 
few things like libxml2 using 64-bits, enabling 64-bits applications 
that use those libraries to link against them and use them.  This is 
great, and once portage supports it, I'd like to have 64-bits versions 
of zlib, etc. to be able to have true 64-bits application userland. 
Considering Fink doesn't do this and I've seen many requests for MonetDB 
using 64-bits on OSX Tiger, I guess some people would be really happy if 
they just installed a ~50MB Gentoo thinger and then be able to compile 
and use MonetDB using 64-bits on their Macs...


-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo for Mac OS X
-- 
gentoo-osx@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-osx] Re: [Bug 107759] Gentoo for Mac OSX installer should be updated

[Kito]

On Oct 2, 2005, at 1:16 PM, Grobian wrote:

>
>
> Kito wrote:
>>> I have been experimenting with 64-bits as well.  I was able to  
>>> compile a few things like libxml2 using 64-bits, enabling 64-bits  
>>> applications that use those libraries to link against them and  
>>> use them.  This is great, and once portage supports it, I'd like  
>>> to have 64-bits versions of zlib, etc. to be able to have true 64- 
>>> bits application userland. Considering Fink doesn't do this and  
>>> I've seen many requests for MonetDB using 64-bits on OSX Tiger, I  
>>> guess some people would be really happy if they just installed a  
>>> ~50MB Gentoo thinger and then be able to compile and use MonetDB  
>>> using 64-bits on their Macs...
>> How would an installer solve this problem? Tiger ships with the  
>> 64Bit libraries (`file /usr/lib/crt1.o`) which should allow anyone  
>> to build for 64Bit targets. A separate profile perhaps?
> Unfortunately only the system libraries appear to be "fat" and 64- 
> bits, the rest isn't.

Right, but the libs that are 64-Bit aware should be enough to  
bootstrap for a 64-Bit target.

> The shipping is indeed a problem, merely because for some packages  
> setting "-arch ppc64" in cflags is not enough.  However, this is a  
> general gentoo problem.
>
> One way to do it, would be to create a installer with "fat"  
> libraries, and set the -arch cflags correctly (specifying multiple  
> ones makes fat files) during the bootstrap process.  This might not  
> be what an advanced user wants, but pretty ok for a regular user.

I've thought about this a lot, and I always come back with the  
feeling that fat (or 'universal' if you like marketing terms)  
binaries don't really have a place in portage. Ideally we wouldn't  
ship anything in an installer that portage doesn't know how to build  
itself... which would mean another keyword (ppc64-macos) and profile  
( default-darwin/macos/10.4/{x86,x86_64(?),ppc,ppc64} ).
>
> So last way to do it is just to keep it unofficial.  That is for  
> example if I put the 64-bits installer on my website, and give no  
> support + a lot of warnings.  An emerge info then would immediately  
> reveal a 64-bits savvy user.

I guess I don't follow how you would do this in a pkg installer  
without having a valid profile and keyword. We have the overlay now,  
so you could keep the profile there without polluting mainline tree.

All that being said, ppc64/darwin is already an extinct species,  
despite the fact it never really got started, so I'm not sure how  
much work you'd want to put in to this in the long term...

>
> well, this is all just dreaming anyway for now.

And what is life without dreams...

--Kito
-- 
gentoo-osx@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-osx] Re: [Bug 107759] Gentoo for Mac OSX installer should be updated

[Grobian]

Kito wrote:
> Right, but the libs that are 64-Bit aware should be enough to bootstrap 
> for a 64-Bit target.

Agreed.

>> One way to do it, would be to create a installer with "fat" libraries, 
>> and set the -arch cflags correctly (specifying multiple ones makes fat 
>> files) during the bootstrap process.  This might not be what an 
>> advanced user wants, but pretty ok for a regular user.
> 
> I've thought about this a lot, and I always come back with the feeling 
> that fat (or 'universal' if you like marketing terms) binaries don't 
> really have a place in portage. Ideally we wouldn't ship anything in an 
> installer that portage doesn't know how to build itself... which would 
> mean another keyword (ppc64-macos) and profile ( 
> default-darwin/macos/10.4/{x86,x86_64(?),ppc,ppc64} ).

I can live with that.  In the end I wouldn't want the ppc and i386 stuff 
on my machine if I don't want to use it.

>> So last way to do it is just to keep it unofficial.  That is for 
>> example if I put the 64-bits installer on my website, and give no 
>> support + a lot of warnings.  An emerge info then would immediately 
>> reveal a 64-bits savvy user.
> 
> I guess I don't follow how you would do this in a pkg installer without 
> having a valid profile and keyword. We have the overlay now, so you 
> could keep the profile there without polluting mainline tree.

For the moment, I won't be doing anything on it :)  But I still think 
there is nothing necessary (yet) to do it.

> All that being said, ppc64/darwin is already an extinct species, despite 
> the fact it never really got started, so I'm not sure how much work 
> you'd want to put in to this in the long term...

"64-bits, because I'm worth it" :p
I think this whole idea is not of any interest for the moment.  It's 
much more important that the infrastructure for a 'normal' Portage on 
OSX gets there.  (And if I understood correctly, it's underway.)

>> well, this is all just dreaming anyway for now.
> 
> And what is life without dreams...

boring!


-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo for Mac OS X Project -- Interim Lead
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