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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 22:26:07 -0500
From: Brian Harring <ferringb@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-osx@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-osx] Re: [RFC] Separate alt-prefix repo for base-system packages.
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Sidenote, no need to cc, just joined the ml for the discussion in the=20
meantime since people occasionally forget to cc (I know I do).

On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 01:09:49PM +1000, Finn Thain wrote:
> > I'm not sure I agree. I think this gets too close to a package.provided=
=20
> > situation, portage will never know enough about another systems package=
s=20
> > to map their functionality to its own. I think its preferable to let=20
> > portage handle what it knows first hand before trying to force it data=
=20
> > from a foreign host.
>=20
> I'm not proposing that one "injects" non-identical packages under the sam=
e=20
> names. Actually, I have been against that since the beginning.
>=20
> I was thinking of something like, at run time, query the vendor package=
=20
> manager and use the result to populate the tree with packages like=20
> vendor-apple/sys-devel/xcode-1.5, vendor-sun/app-arch/cpio-x.y.z for=20
> example (please substitute sgi, bsd-ports, redhat or debian etc if you ar=
e=20
> hostile to any of my examples).
>=20
> Apple's XCode is closed source, and sun's cpio is now open. The former=20
> requires an ebuild to invoke installer(8), the latter requires an ebuild=
=20
> to build it from source. No-one is lying to portage here.
>=20
> And, if sys-apps/bsd-awk-x.y.z builds the same thing that apple ships, it=
=20
> can provide vendor-apple/sys-apps/bsd-awk.
>=20
> Also, the ebuilds for both vendor-apple/sys-apps/bsd-awk and=20
> sys-apps/bsd-awk should provide virtual/awk. So, when arbitrary ebuild fo=
o=20
> wants generic awk (doesn't care about gnu extensions), it can depend on=
=20
> that virtual (unless virtuals are to be deprecated, in which case foo=20
> somehow has to depend on any vendor, including gentoo).
The rewrite's domain's abstraction (additionally the goal of binding=20
the resolver to the domain, and being able to do inter-domain=20
resolving) would allow for this, but I *really* don't think it'll work=20
well.

Reasoning is, how do you know that pkg xyz is actually the package=20
you're after?  The expanded restrictions subsystem, specifically=20
ability to depends based on contents restrictions (I want the pkg that=20
owns file abc essentially) gives basic ability for this, but it=20
doesn't cover the abi angle.

What you're proposing could sort of be hacked together to pull off=20
strictly for src compiles, probably with a good collection of=20
impossible to quash annoying bugs.  Doing it for binaries is a helluva=20
lot harder though. :)

> > >IMHO, this sounds like a "gentoo-darwin" sub-project to gentoo-alt,=20
> > >along-side os x and bsd. It isn't really a fork except in as much as=
=20
> > >the profile arrangement doesn't really accomodate work on darwin prope=
r=20
> > >(but then the profile arrangemnet is flawed anyway: it only exists thi=
s=20
> > >way because of the package.provided crutch).
> >=20
> > I was looking at it more as a place to develop some new portage=20
> > features...Gentoo/Darwin has always been lurking, this is more in the=
=20
> > area of just getting offsets working.
>=20
> OK, I see what you are getting at now. That was something that I failed t=
o=20
> infer from the email you forwarded to the list. Most of what I said in=20
> reply isn't very relevant to that. Excepting that, if you can leverage=20
> existing packages, prefixed installs are much more useful -- having a=20
> complete set of deps installed on a prefix is not much better than a=20
> stage3 chroot with your home directory bind mounted below it.

The rewrite's general core is intended to allow for alt=20
formats/repos/whatever jammed into it; that said, making seperate=20
formats play nice with each other (unless they can natively) isn't=20
something I think is incredibly easy to pull off, as mentioned above.

Thoughts?
~harring

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