From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <gentoo-nfp+bounces-2112-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org> Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6C59138334 for <garchives@archives.gentoo.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 06:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 31872E085B; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 06:12:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (mail.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3872E07DB for <gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 06:12:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from grubbs.orbis-terrarum.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5426E346E5A for <gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 06:12:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 11309 invoked by uid 10000); 3 Jul 2019 06:12:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 06:12:13 +0000 From: "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org Cc: gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-nfp] Re: [gentoo-project] Questions for Gentoo Council nominees: Gentoo Foundation - Treasurer Response! Message-ID: <robbat2-20190702T195936-147624256Z@orbis-terrarum.net> References: <MSW6PGAY.6HKCAHYY.3EVSTC2H@GXKJUOY4.SSPUY6ED.TL62SB63> <86784617.NvtdGxuBOO@pinacolada> Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-nfp+help@lists.gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-nfp+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-nfp+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-nfp.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kpPO918KLFLiDzif" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86784617.NvtdGxuBOO@pinacolada> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) X-Archives-Salt: 647d38f4-230a-48f1-a40d-aa35ec149433 X-Archives-Hash: 69e00f4a7c280cdf5cb19b4a2a79a41e --kpPO918KLFLiDzif Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:34:06PM +0200, Andreas K. Huettel wrote: > > > Yes, I understand that. However, I still believe that a contract > > > initiated between CPA and a single small-ish entity such a Gentoo > > > involves more costs than fees taken by umbrella dedicated to multiple > > > entities. Please correct me if I'm wrong. > >=20 > > Nobody knows yet. Different umbrellas work differently. The CPA we have engaged so far, Corporate Capital, has a standard preparation fee of USD1500 per fiscal year. We do have some estimates of Umbrella fees, plus the Financial Statements I prepared... >=20 > Sigh. I agree with the second statement. The first one, well... >=20 > Here's the example of SPI (disclaimer, we do not know if they would take = us): > * no direct costs associated > * 5% deduction from donations for SPI's overhead >=20 > Big Hint, it helps to first research something and then talk / discuss. T= hat's=20 > however, rather rare on this list. The Trustees HAVE previously done _some_ of this legwork on the major umbrellas, I don't have a link to hand, but I do remember details, because it was in scope of my work as Treasurer; and we can combine these with the financial statements to compare against the CPA quotes to date. Further would should take the longer list of Umbrellas and comprehensively document their costs. As further concrete example: https://sfconservancy.org/projects/apply/ >> How much does it cost us financially to join Conservancy? >> New Conservancy members are required to pay 10% of their revenue The umbrella fees I've seen range: - smallest: 5% of net revenue (income less expenses) - largest: 20% of gross income The exact definition of which expenses might be included/excluded by a given umbrella might also vary, I didn't find a clear public documentation on it. Basing that on the FY2018 fiscal, with the additional caveat that I don't have any value assigned to in-kind server/hosting services received by Infra; That would increase gross & net values. Gross Income: USD 28,600.15 Gross Expenses: USD 9,292.95=20 - Depreciation: USD 3,659.64 (it devalued assets but wasn't something we ac= tually spent) - "Real" Expense: USD 5,633.31 =3D Net revenue: USD 22,966.84 5% of net: USD 1,148.34 20% of gross: USD 5,720.03 At an outward glance, this does imply that some umbrellas would be cheaper than a CPA, while others would be more expensive; but the equation is more complicated, because we need to be careful about the accounting of services that the umbrella would provide. The equation therefore should be more of: Cost(Umbrella) vs [Umbrella baseline without umbrella-provided expenses] Regardless of the scale of the numbers, the change would REDUCE the expenses, and increase the net revenue number (and thus also the Umbrella's actual fee). --=20 Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux: Dev, Infra Lead, Foundation Treasurer E-Mail : robbat2@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85 GnuPG FP : 7D0B3CEB E9B85B1F 825BCECF EE05E6F6 A48F6136 --kpPO918KLFLiDzif Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Robbat2 @ Orbis-Terrarum Networks - The text below is a digital signature. 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