From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DAFD13933E for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 14:58:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B49BE0CDA; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 14:58:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oo1-f49.google.com (mail-oo1-f49.google.com [209.85.161.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EB0CE0CDA; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 14:58:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oo1-f49.google.com with SMTP id x139-20020a4a41910000b0290257bad81ed5so567601ooa.3; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:58:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=h5G2xDLuHcZkfLKhUD1r7G3XBSiN0oH5Wj5rxifiu9M=; b=gApDO1ni3bALMRN1BCdN9hJZ/EfwJ48H/HYn+iGHLKBGVNR3/dHGHBK0j4RdNCeVjB ixQF9fBV2G4BmuvQzld0vcGxje/UlEz6/b1UKzV4qTYahOrYnj/WZOLPmmYtCaRzAhOd RY4M5mHNAE14efJBSaHGh1FSqBDi2E0xUE3QRdOct4zjyAV9fL6peuzQ4TSUnFl0lULj CIx0aO9sjdeIxyFU1aHr2U7/VT/oVXp47vpri2uxi+2TmY/VWuX9vQ1t5yVcVh9WNZ6X FM4b8otQMmYPDNFPGaX59RbU4pByj5ZySYltsqpXb1e6IIKouNAcEF1a9xoVAfWKBodu yFeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530/Xe+PomndlJYxHBDTlRWbx57xHqnx4fV7wwo6CCdvKTWyvfSs M/i4nfjBZ5z5ofFy4GsL0ZSWb9gQpNXy9Mlf0yZGjQxm X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyP7zQ2O9k1lFFvhsmapJfI8VWI3whPc4b9HsqqkbitTcxbxmdk5qljQG+LcDrcr+lNJ5KyQRPe0w71AFCW8Ag= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:a28b:: with SMTP id h11mr9516076ool.7.1625669923235; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0b4c895018c93be369b1d534fe393f2f5b6952ea.camel@gentoo.org> <87d313a2-790d-254b-bbc9-db5a0c58f642@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: From: Rich Freeman Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 10:58:31 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-nfp] 2021 Trustees election To: gentoo-project Cc: gentoo-nfp , Gentoo Elections Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Archives-Salt: 8bb08443-8ca6-4e67-a73d-352fe0719902 X-Archives-Hash: 049458a6ffa7db1f3c2ff211105d24a1 On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Aaron Bauman wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 07:32:12AM +0300, Joonas Niilola wrote: > > > > Out of curiosity, with an umbrella organization could there be any fear > > for a similar takeover that happened with Freenode? > > > > There is a possibility of such, but it is highly unlikely. > > More realistic/probable concerns are umbrellas enforcing > rules/guidelines/requirements that Gentoo may not agree with. IMO these are effectively the same thing. When the situation with Freenode was nothing more than a legal formality nobody cared about it. As soon as it starts to have practical impact on how things work (or is anticipated to), that is when everybody starts getting upset. I do think some of your examples are the sorts of things that are very likely to come up based on current trends, and you can use your imagination to consider others. Whether these are a concern or not is going to vary based on individual sentiments. Either way (umbrella takeover or internal takeover), the "Libera solution" would still be an option. This is why I think that the best defense against hostile takeover is minimizing dependence on lots of complex infrastructure for core functions. The less you have to replace the less painful it is to do. If ICE or whatever seized gentoo.org, and our emails all start bouncing and DNS addresses of servers/etc stop resolving, do enough people know how to find each other to put the band back together (I'm guessing we wouldn't lose access to IRC in that case, so probably yes)? This isn't intended to start a tangent, just to point out that this legal risk is hard to avoid when your operational and legal orgs are somewhat disjoint. -- Rich