From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A4CC138334 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:56:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 71947E0909; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:56:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io1-xd2a.google.com (mail-io1-xd2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51777E0909 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:56:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io1-xd2a.google.com with SMTP id k8so30690983iot.1 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 10:56:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gentoo-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=WT5231mtkcslHKxLjqdguccLON5qMda+E4lQbdlQn4w=; b=ce9KowXt3rmHcCovbyaXnOffuCq5epny3rVT2Zx+G4/OEA6VXTNVcVFcTDA3DtvyiO DXK1qqs7KMPOMD1DnaABIo+TOkw7zGWoo3enShEBGIndJlC+vv4nen9g5y7O+cP2PFvQ wjAwn9IFtBrQEbDi++t9j9kREXlGfI4JSjfkFdbhsFM/4u9YQl5mxfO+VQqnmQZUX1Qf 2lih+P3Z/LxYdatYS+miFwnQIwHMwQhJtDQt58tuoza5uaO2D4FoZMO7Urvoc0XdS87K SsyMc7QEki43EtjTRcmVDoh3FcnmhbZAgimDS1/+hWz3EPFFVIZdFBqp+tIyCvMLzxdT AHNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=WT5231mtkcslHKxLjqdguccLON5qMda+E4lQbdlQn4w=; b=qiSdfgUBcTynYGyNYubsMoqYHENbXVwujfepWYLlGZjik4s3qtOsWLFSC7ua+Mg7OI w7YG2hnTYAIzEiNeJzGvtZ60+o1noUUkbZO7s+u0jQF9/XYkvXQwTMqFHOeHKnVBYJ+5 nlOrgXg/fR8sjZTsMLID+gl+AVUEpRQc+uI09dk2mEzwUFZNn3J1SdeY87L5rvb2qqgn GjUzfEWXc+Crszysa4EhBoHglIIp5+PESuiHW+IRYpfnx0R7ANnjmzJ7g/wYYZJHFk17 oQ7ME3ZmUcR1E8Wn5Ri30NMzofPymWpVDxU5ip/NNKh3YBEdkCMmMsFOD35jeyzemSky 4ELw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV8PXFFx2VwesIjc6v1HDtg9yav+ZAoK1iSe5INe5D/pQAToz1g UT7/ibbhPCXWVI0dOmMJVgLUVIciyN/w1a6WOlh5lnNz X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyZ4tfNnhxtzgyjxBKeEa297MDUkvZUQnx+vJk50GqvYYZYsypi2o7Ss8iA+HbrIomhGv21W4KXlFBA3tiu/5s= X-Received: by 2002:a02:aa1d:: with SMTP id r29mr24070882jam.127.1563127007006; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 10:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190714144035.GD22850@bubba.lan> <20190714175119.GR22850@bubba.lan> In-Reply-To: <20190714175119.GR22850@bubba.lan> From: Alec Warner Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 10:56:36 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-nfp] Questions For Gentoo Foundation Trustee Candidates To: gentoo-nfp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fde54f058da7dd4c" X-Archives-Salt: 0259605b-03b0-45fb-a017-077395211125 X-Archives-Hash: c47ff232c07c69d3270a815d72528b79 --000000000000fde54f058da7dd4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:51 AM Aaron Bauman wrote: > On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:04:28AM -0700, Alec Warner wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 7:40 AM Aaron Bauman wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 07:52:53AM -0700, Alec Warner wrote: > > > > > > > > > Can you explain why you ran for election on the platform of dissolving > the > > > foundation, in favor of an umbrella, but have not conducted any > research > > > into > > > what is required to do so? Presented any definitive options, figures, > > > impacts, > > > etc to the electorate? > > > > > > > The electorate doesn't care about the details of the foundation. Of the > > 80-odd members, ~30 of them will vote. > > There are 4 people running and 3 seats, so it doesn't take much to get > > elected (as noted earlier in the thread.) > > > > So, you have conducted a poll to back that statement? > I haven not conducted a poll, no. > > What if the reasoning of non-interest was simply not to be involved in the > mess > that is the tax filings? > Then I'd be wrong. > > > I'm happy to share a proposal at a later date. > > > > You said a year ago that you wanted to dissolve. So, why hasn't a proposal > been > brought in a year? > I spent the majority of last year working on the RFP and finding a CPA. One has been found. It seemed too early to propose articles of dissolution without financial advise on how to wind down (which we now have.) > > > > > > > Is this why you voluntarily put yourself up for re-election during the > > > current > > > cycle? > > > > > > > I'm not sure what 'this' is referring to, but I agreed with Robin's > premise > > which was that if Robin and I stepped aside mid-term it would free up > more > > seats and we might have a more vigorous election (as opposed to the > usual, > > which is we win by running unopposed.) I also bought into his argument > that > > it would be a great opportunity to sweep the board. Three open seats > meant > > that if a faction of Gentoo wanted to take control of the Foundation they > > simply needed to find and elect three people and those people would have > a > > board majority. > > > > It refers to the previous statement of not having produced a proposal to > dissolve into an umbrella. > > > The outcome was 4 candidates for 3 seats, so we get to have an election > > (good!) but still pretty minimal participation from the community :/ > > > > > > > > > - The members themselves don't hold anyone accountable. Basically > this > > > > follows the last piece of the first bullet; that the board can > basically > > > be > > > > bad at their job and keep their seats trivially. The members are > supposed > > > > to care about the board's mission (to support Gentoo!) but in fact > most > > > > members do nothing and vote once a year when asked (like now!) I > suspect > > > if > > > > a potato was put on the ballot the members would vote for that as a > > > trustee > > > > if it filled a seat; because they don't care about the foundation > working > > > > correctly or not provided it continues to fund Infra (nominally one > of > > > two > > > > useful things the Foundation actually does.) > > > > > > > > > > This can be fixed by proper by-laws, but the board has failed to adopt > any > > > reasonable by-laws to make forward progress. Also, I think a bit of > > > transparency from the board would result in our sister nations > > > understanding why > > > by-laws and Articles of Incorporation are important. > > > > > > Many understand the significance of a GLEP, but do not neccasarily > > > understand > > > the importance/role of by-laws and AoI. > > > > > > Additionally, I do believe members and devs know the Foundation "holds > the > > > purse" as they have seen from the purchase of the Nitrokeys to support > > > their > > > mission. > > > > > > > - The scope of work done by the Foundation during it's 15 years is > > > minimal > > > > (trademark defense and funding) and I believe an umbrella > organization > > > can > > > > do both. I concede it limits future options (because once we give > assets > > > to > > > > the umbrella they can only do what is in any agreement we sign.) > However, > > > > its a risk I'm willing to take given the poor performance of the > > > Foundation > > > > in the past (and the anticipated poor performance in the future; see > > > first > > > > two points.) > > > > > > > > -A > > > > > > > > > > c.f my statement above and consider the performance during this cycle. > > > > > > Overall, each individual has simply pointed out the financial failures > of > > > the > > > foundation... which I agree with. However, dissolution has many more > > > potential ramifications than benefits. > > > > > > The majority of failures can simply be fixed by retaining a CPA. > > > > > > > If I was convinced we had the support of the community and a board to run > > the Foundation for the next 10 years (retaining a CPA, doing other > required > > duties) I'd not dissolve the Foundation at all. However, I'm not > convinced > > of that. You might ask "what would it take to convince me" and the answer > > is likely more community participation in board matters, elections, etc. > > You are one human; but it will take more than one to do this job. > > > > > > Seems we have more participation now, as you stated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Roy Bamford > > > > > (Neddyseagoon) a member of > > > > > elections > > > > > gentoo-ops > > > > > forum-mods > > > > > arm64 > > > > > > -- > > > Cheers, > > > Aaron > > > > > -- > Cheers, > Aaron > --000000000000fde54f058da7dd4c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:51 AM Aaro= n Bauman <bman@gentoo.org> wro= te:
On Sun, Jul = 14, 2019 at 10:04:28AM -0700, Alec Warner wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 7:40 AM Aaron Bauman <bman@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 07:52:53AM -0700, Alec Warner wrote:

<snip>

> >
> > Can you explain why you ran for election on the platform of disso= lving the
> > foundation, in favor of an umbrella, but have not conducted any r= esearch
> > into
> > what is required to do so? Presented any definitive options, figu= res,
> > impacts,
> > etc to the electorate?
> >
>
> The electorate doesn't care about the details of the foundation. O= f the
> 80-odd members, ~30 of them will vote.
> There are 4 people running and 3 seats, so it doesn't take much to= get
> elected (as noted earlier in the thread.)
>

So, you have conducted a poll to back that statement?
=
I haven not conducted a poll, no.
=C2=A0

What if the reasoning of non-interest was simply not to be involved in the = mess
that is the tax filings?

Then I'd b= e wrong.
=C2=A0

> I'm happy to share a proposal at a later date.
>

You said a year ago that you wanted to dissolve. So, why hasn't a propo= sal been
brought in a year?

I spent the majority= of last year working on the RFP and finding a CPA. One has been found. It = seemed too early to propose articles of dissolution without financial advis= e on how to wind down (which we now have.)
=C2=A0

> >
> > Is this why you voluntarily put yourself up for re-election durin= g the
> > current
> > cycle?
> >
>
> I'm not sure what 'this' is referring to, but I agreed wit= h Robin's premise
> which was that if Robin and I stepped aside mid-term it would free up = more
> seats and we might have a more vigorous election (as opposed to the us= ual,
> which is we win by running unopposed.) I also bought into his argument= that
> it would be a great opportunity to sweep the board. Three open seats m= eant
> that if a faction of Gentoo wanted to take control of the Foundation t= hey
> simply needed to find and elect three people and those people would ha= ve a
> board majority.
>

It refers to the previous statement of not having produced a proposal to dissolve into an umbrella.

> The outcome was 4 candidates for 3 seats, so we get to have an electio= n
> (good!) but still pretty minimal participation from the community :/ >
> >
> > > - The members themselves don't hold anyone accountable. = Basically this
> > > follows the last piece of the first bullet; that the board c= an basically
> > be
> > > bad at their job and keep their seats trivially. The members= are supposed
> > > to care about the board's mission (to support Gentoo!) b= ut in fact most
> > > members do nothing and vote once a year when asked (like now= !) I suspect
> > if
> > > a potato was put on the ballot the members would vote for th= at as a
> > trustee
> > > if it filled a seat; because they don't care about the f= oundation working
> > > correctly or not provided it continues to fund Infra (nomina= lly one of
> > two
> > > useful things the Foundation actually does.)
> > >
> >
> > This can be fixed by proper by-laws, but the board has failed to = adopt any
> > reasonable by-laws to make forward progress.=C2=A0 Also, I think = a bit of
> > transparency from the board would result in our sister nations > > understanding why
> > by-laws and Articles of Incorporation are important.
> >
> > Many understand the significance of a GLEP, but do not neccasaril= y
> > understand
> > the importance/role of by-laws and AoI.
> >
> > Additionally, I do believe members and devs know the Foundation &= quot;holds the
> > purse" as they have seen from the purchase of the Nitrokeys = to support
> > their
> > mission.
> >
> > > - The scope of work done by the Foundation during it's 1= 5 years is
> > minimal
> > > (trademark defense and funding) and I believe an umbrella or= ganization
> > can
> > > do both. I concede it limits future options (because once we= give assets
> > to
> > > the umbrella they can only do what is in any agreement we si= gn.) However,
> > > its a risk I'm willing to take given the poor performanc= e of the
> > Foundation
> > > in the past (and the anticipated poor performance in the fut= ure; see
> > first
> > > two points.)
> > >
> > > -A
> > >
> >
> > c.f my statement above and consider the performance during this c= ycle.
> >
> > Overall, each individual has simply pointed out the financial fai= lures of
> > the
> > foundation... which I agree with.=C2=A0 However, dissolution has = many more
> > potential ramifications than benefits.
> >
> > The majority of failures can simply be fixed by retaining a CPA.<= br> > >
>
> If I was convinced we had the support of the community and a board to = run
> the Foundation for the next 10 years (retaining a CPA, doing other req= uired
> duties) I'd not dissolve the Foundation at all. However, I'm n= ot convinced
> of that. You might ask "what would it take to convince me" a= nd the answer
> is likely more community participation in board matters, elections, et= c.
> You are one human; but it will take more than one to do this job.
>
>

Seems we have more participation now, as you stated.

> >
> > >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Roy Bamford
> > > > (Neddyseagoon) a member of
> > > > elections
> > > > gentoo-ops
> > > > forum-mods
> > > > arm64
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > Aaron
> >

--
Cheers,
Aaron
--000000000000fde54f058da7dd4c--