Re: [gentoo-nfp] Agenda item: Formalize Gentoo's org structure

["Michał Górny" <mgorny@gentoo.org>]

W dniu wto, 10.04.2018 o godzinie 14∶56 -0500, użytkownik Matthew Thode
napisał:
> On 18-04-10 21:54:57, Michał Górny wrote:
> > W dniu wto, 10.04.2018 o godzinie 14∶47 -0500, użytkownik Matthew Thode
> > napisał:
> > > On 18-04-10 21:41:47, Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > W dniu wto, 10.04.2018 o godzinie 14∶39 -0500, użytkownik Matthew Thode
> > > > napisał:
> > > > > On 18-04-10 21:23:26, Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > > > W dniu wto, 10.04.2018 o godzinie 12∶47 -0500, użytkownik Matthew Thode
> > > > > > napisał:
> > > > > > > On 18-04-10 19:28:11, Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > > > > > W dniu pon, 09.04.2018 o godzinie 12∶50 -0500, użytkownik Matthew Thode
> > > > > > > > napisał:
> > > > > > > > > On 18-04-09 18:57:27, Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > But let's get to the details.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Your proposal -- once again -- makes Trustees the highest-level
> > > > > > > > > > governing body of Gentoo and reduces Council to technical matters.  This
> > > > > > > > > > is against GLEP 39 which clearly states that Council is responsible for
> > > > > > > > > > all global decisions and as far as I'm aware is the most recent policy
> > > > > > > > > > defining the role of Council.  Unless you have a strong reason to
> > > > > > > > > > believe that this policy has been illegally forced upon Gentoo, you are
> > > > > > > > > > not 'formalizing' anything but attempting to change well-established
> > > > > > > > > > metastructure and outright lying to the community that the current state
> > > > > > > > > > is undefined.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > I believe that Trustees can't be the highest governing body of Gentoo
> > > > > > > > > > for a number of reasons. I will enumerate those I can think of below:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > GLEP 39 is not legally binding.  This proposal would make glep 39 need
> > > > > > > > > changes (mainly that there would be a governing body above council).  At
> > > > > > > > > that point glep 39 could possibly be made into a bylaw.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Are you saying that Trustees do not have to respect the result of vote
> > > > > > > > done among all Gentoo developers?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The trustees are beholden to those that elected them, namely the
> > > > > > > foundation membership, while many of them are developers, some are not.
> > > > > > > So, no, we do not have to respect a result of those that are not our
> > > > > > > members.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What is your claim, exactly?  Are you saying that back in 2005
> > > > > > the Foundation members and developers were disjoint the way they are
> > > > > > today?  Or are you claiming that Trustees don't have to respect old
> > > > > > rules because they have accepted additional non-developer members
> > > > > > afterwards?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > According to LDAP, you have joined Gentoo in 2011.  GLEP 39 was
> > > > > > effective already back then, and unless your recruitment was much
> > > > > > different from mine (2010), you should've been taught about it.  So why
> > > > > > the sudden surprise about it?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The Trustees are responsible to those that elected them (Foundation
> > > > > members).
> > > > > I as a Gentoo Developer should respect GLEP 39.
> > > > > I as a Gentoo Trustee do not need to respect GLEP 39.
> > > > > These are different roles.  I think selinux did role based behavior well.
> > > > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/SELinux/Role-based_access_control
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Does that mean that I as Gentoo Developer does not have to respect
> > > > the decisions made by Trustees?  In that case I suppose all we have to
> > > > do is leave the Foundation.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > You are still using the Gentoo name working on foundation owned
> > > resources.  You as a developer need to respect the Trustees in that
> > > respect.  The council needs to respect the foundation for legal /
> > > monetary reasons.  If the Trustees/Foundation makes a decision
> > > regarding what it owns it needs to be obeyed (as long as it's legal of
> > > course).  I'm probably missing something here though.
> > > 
> > 
> > ...and at the same time Foundation receives money from users who are
> > using Gentoo not because of what the Trustees do but because of the work
> > *developers* put into the distribution.  So why do the Trustees not have
> > to respect the developers?
> > 
> 
> I want to make sure I answer the question you are actually asking, what
> do you mean by respect?
> 

You have said that as a developer I have to respect rules set by
Trustees since I use the resources they are providing.  Therefore, I am
asking why Trustees do not feel that it would be appropriate to respect
the rules approved by the developer community since they are explicitly
relying on the work of the developers.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny