[gentoo-kbase] Possible topic for kbase?

[gentoo-kbase] Possible topic for kbase?

[Marc Blumentritt]

Hi,

I do not know, if in this stage of the kbase it is a little bit early to
suggest topics for it, but I do it anyway ;)

I would like to have something official from Gentoo about toolchain
handling. I asked about this on the doc list [1]. I repeat my point:
there are several discussions on the forums and email lists about how to
properly update your toolchain. Mike Frysinger pointed out on the doc
list, that "people shouldnt care ... it should always "just work"" [2].
This goes in the direction of "your system will be updated to the new
toolchain over time". But some people do not want this, they want to
update thier complete system, if the toolchain changes. There are
suggestions for this like "emerge -e system && emerge -e system &&
emerge -e world && emerge -e world" and people saying, that this is
stupid. Also major updates of toolchain packages (like gcc-3.3 to
gcc-3.4 and greater) can break your system, if not properly done. So a
kbase article explaining about major updates, weighing out all options
and describing all pro and cons, finishing with a recommended solution
would be nice!


In one of my posts on the doc list [3], I outlined a much more generic
toolchain guide. Since Sven pointed out in one of his posts on this
list, that he would like to see more general solutions, I would be very
happy, if this would enter the kbase, too.


Regards,
Marc


[1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.documentation/2568
[2] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.documentation/2573
[3] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.documentation/2571
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Re: [gentoo-kbase] Possible topic for kbase?

[Pablo Antonio]

Yes, it would be good to have an entry in the kbase with an overall
description of what has to be done in order to properly update the
toolchain.

A link to the GCC Upgrade Guide (and to any other guide with further
information) may appear where it's needed, since the kbase is supposed
to give concise instructions only. Of course, all this method should be
agreed between developers before.

But as you said, IMO, maybe you should keep these ideas for a maturer
stage of kbase's development.

-- 
Pablo Antonio (AKA crazy2k)
http://www.pablo-a.com.ar/

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[gentoo-kbase] Re: Possible topic for kbase?

[Marc Blumentritt]

Pablo Antonio schrieb:
> But as you said, IMO, maybe you should keep these ideas for a maturer
> stage of kbase's development.

I'm vary anxious about the kbase, since I heard of it. It's so hard to
wait...

Marc

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Re: [gentoo-kbase] Re: Possible topic for kbase?

[Pablo Antonio]

On 23:13 Sat 12 Aug     , Marc Blumentritt wrote:
> Pablo Antonio schrieb:
> > But as you said, IMO, maybe you should keep these ideas for a maturer
> > stage of kbase's development.
> 
> I'm vary anxious about the kbase, since I heard of it. It's so hard to
> wait...

Heh, that's ok. I think your input will be very appreciated by those
involved in the development too. :)

-- 
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http://www.pablo-a.com.ar/

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Re: [gentoo-kbase] Re: Possible topic for kbase?

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Sat, Aug 12, 2006 at 11:13:50PM +0200, Marc Blumentritt wrote:
> I'm vary anxious about the kbase, since I heard of it. It's so hard to
> wait...

Patience is a good virtue... but I was also hoping for more input =) I'll
try to put up some additional topics soon (first finish working on my
floor), but we certainly need more input on this.

Wkr,
      Sven Vermeulen

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[gentoo-kbase] Re: Possible topic for kbase?

[Marc Blumentritt]

Sven Vermeulen schrieb:
> Patience is a good virtue... but I was also hoping for more input =) I'll
> try to put up some additional topics soon (first finish working on my
> floor), but we certainly need more input on this.

OK, with the update of gcc to 4.1, I worked again a lot with my Linux
system and I stumbled about some things, which I always wanted to know
more about. I do not know, if these topics are of interest or are
already explained in some detail elsewhere:

1.) What's a kernel, what is inside of it and why (userland vs. kernel)?
 I read somewhere, that over 50% of the kernel are drivers. Why are they
in the kernel and what's the rest? What is an initrd and when do you
need it? As far as I know, the Linux kernel is not the only choice with
Gentoo (BSD, Darwin, ?). What's the difference, advantages,
disadvantages? I know this is quite general.

2.) What is behind system (of emerge system)? How does portage know,
what packages are in system? I know, that the profiles define these, but
how does it work? What's the impact of USE flags on the system packages?
This is something I always wanted to know, but never really looked for,
so if there is already a good doc about it, sorry for the spam.

3.) How to get rid of cruft files? I removed a lot of old packages,
which I do not use anymore. By chance I found many files belonging to
these deleted packages on my system, e.g. in /etc/env.d I found
02distcc. Another example are old kernel modules in /lib/modules and
cleaning the portage tree. Are there good ways for finding these files?


Just a thought: Some guides like the gcc upgrade guide are "quick
solutions" to "specific problems". I think this fits quite good for the
kbase, so perhaps all guides like this should be moved/transformed to
the kbase?

Cheers,
Marc

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Re: [gentoo-kbase] Re: Possible topic for kbase?

[Sven Vermeulen]

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On Tue, Sep 05, 2006 at 10:41:05AM +0200, Marc Blumentritt wrote:
> 1.) What's a kernel, what is inside of it and why (userland vs. kernel)?
>  I read somewhere, that over 50% of the kernel are drivers. Why are they
> in the kernel and what's the rest? What is an initrd and when do you
> need it? As far as I know, the Linux kernel is not the only choice with
> Gentoo (BSD, Darwin, ?). What's the difference, advantages,
> disadvantages? I know this is quite general.
> 
> 2.) What is behind system (of emerge system)? How does portage know,
> what packages are in system? I know, that the profiles define these, but
> how does it work? What's the impact of USE flags on the system packages?
> This is something I always wanted to know, but never really looked for,
> so if there is already a good doc about it, sorry for the spam.
> 
> 3.) How to get rid of cruft files? I removed a lot of old packages,
> which I do not use anymore. By chance I found many files belonging to
> these deleted packages on my system, e.g. in /etc/env.d I found
> 02distcc. Another example are old kernel modules in /lib/modules and
> cleaning the portage tree. Are there good ways for finding these files?

Those are very good topics; it shouldn't be too difficult to find adequate
answers and add them to the repository.

> Just a thought: Some guides like the gcc upgrade guide are "quick
> solutions" to "specific problems". I think this fits quite good for the
> kbase, so perhaps all guides like this should be moved/transformed to
> the kbase?

On the contrary; when topics tend to grow, it might be a good sign to turn
them into guides. Likewise, whenever a guide exists that covers some topic,
the topic in the kbase should point to the guide.

Guides are more managed (documentation-wise) than kbase articles (the entire
GDP crew looks after them); they are also translated into several other
languages.

Wkr,
      Sven Vermeulen

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[gentoo-kbase] Re: Possible topic for kbase?

[Marc Blumentritt]

Sven Vermeulen schrieb:
> On Tue, Sep 05, 2006 at 10:41:05AM +0200, Marc Blumentritt wrote:
 > Those are very good topics; it shouldn't be too difficult to find
adequate
> answers and add them to the repository.

I have one more, but I have not looked into it myself (with other words
I have not googled/checked Guides, Wiki, Forums): mounting volumes and
CDs/DVDs as user. I always stumble over this and then have to look for
the answer. Also some nice informations about usefull mount options
would be great.

> 
>> Just a thought: Some guides like the gcc upgrade guide are "quick
>> solutions" to "specific problems". I think this fits quite good for the
>> kbase, so perhaps all guides like this should be moved/transformed to
>> the kbase?
> 
> On the contrary; when topics tend to grow, it might be a good sign to turn
> them into guides. Likewise, whenever a guide exists that covers some topic,
> the topic in the kbase should point to the guide.
> 
> Guides are more managed (documentation-wise) than kbase articles (the entire
> GDP crew looks after them); they are also translated into several other
> languages.

In light of this you are absolutly right.

Cheers
Marc
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