[gentoo-java] gcj, maven, the GPL and ebuild

[gentoo-java] gcj, maven, the GPL and ebuild

[Thufir]

I've been sifting through the archives on these topics and would like a 
status report on java.  stat ;)

The best thing would be for gcj to catch-up to Java 5, but that won't be 
for a while.  There are several threads about ebuilds auto-magically 
fetching a Sun JRE or JDK, displaying a license and then installing.  That 
also would be nice in a more perfect world, but fetching a binary via the 
web browser every now and then isn't the greatest inconvenience in the 
world.

However, even were the Sun JDK easily installed as described above, it'd 
still be masked, as I understand, due to some source files in Gentoo not 
working with Java 5 due to problems with reserved words.

Then there's the philosophical problem with distributing compiled classes 
instead of building a java app from source.

Finally, I was amazed to read that maven is, apparently, windows-centric. 
Very disappointing.

The bottom line appears to be that java for Linux sucked, got better, but 
still sucks and will continue to suck for the foreseeable future.  Yes?


-Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-java] gcj, maven, the GPL and ebuild

[Krzysiek Pawlik]

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Thufir wrote:
> I've been sifting through the archives on these topics and would like a
> status report on java.  stat ;)

One will be posted tomorrow after todays team meeting.

> Finally, I was amazed to read that maven is, apparently,
> windows-centric. Very disappointing.

Any source on this?

> The bottom line appears to be that java for Linux sucked, got better,
> but still sucks and will continue to suck for the foreseeable future.  Yes?

No.

-- 
Krzysiek Pawlik   <nelchael at gentoo.org>   key id: 0xBC555551
desktop-misc, x86, java, apache, ppc...


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[gentoo-java] Re: gcj, maven, the GPL and ebuild

[Thufir]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:05:44 +0200, Krzysiek Pawlik wrote:

> Thufir wrote:
>> I've been sifting through the archives on these topics and would like a
>> status report on java.  stat ;)
> 
> One will be posted tomorrow after todays team meeting.

Lucky timing for me, then :)
 
>> Finally, I was amazed to read that maven is, apparently,
>> windows-centric. Very disappointing.
> 
> Any source on this?

This mailing list.  There were complaints about maven being
windows-centric.
 
>> The bottom line appears to be that java for Linux sucked, got better,
>> but still sucks and will continue to suck for the foreseeable future.
>> Yes?
> 
> No.

I'm not looking for a yes/no altercation; look forward to more info :)


-Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-java] gcj, maven, the GPL and ebuild

[Joshua Nichols]

You brought up quite a tirade of topics... I'd recommend splitting them
up so we can at least have some focus.
Thufir wrote:
> I've been sifting through the archives on these topics and would like
> a status report on java.  stat ;)
>
> The best thing would be for gcj to catch-up to Java 5, but that won't
> be for a while.  There are several threads about ebuilds
> auto-magically fetching a Sun JRE or JDK, displaying a license and
> then installing.  That also would be nice in a more perfect world, but
> fetching a binary via the web browser every now and then isn't the
> greatest inconvenience in the world.
>
a) I'm pretty sure your sources are out of date. Sun's JRE and JDK as of
1.5.0.06 are freely distributable, as in, they are on our mirrors.
b) The method you describe isn't how it was done. You would be prompted
to go a web site. You would then have to visit the site, and click
through the license
> However, even were the Sun JDK easily installed as described above,
> it'd still be masked, as I understand, due to some source files in
> Gentoo not working with Java 5 due to problems with reserved words.
Ok, you are really behind the ball here :)

http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/nichoj/2006/05/22/of_java_1_5_and_gentoo
http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/nichoj/2006/06/26/the_new_java_hotness
http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/nichoj/2006/06/29/update_the_new_java_hotness
http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/nichoj/2006/07/01/updated_java_system_and_java_1_5_unmaske
>
> Then there's the philosophical problem with distributing compiled
> classes instead of building a java app from source.
>
https://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/java/wiki/Why_build_from_source
> Finally, I was amazed to read that maven is, apparently,
> windows-centric. Very disappointing.
>
Where was it ever said on this list that it was windows centric? I think
this is actualy the first time I remember windows even being brought up
on this list. The problem, as has been pointed out in subthread, is that
it is incredibly difficult to package sanely.
> The bottom line appears to be that java for Linux sucked, got better,
> but still sucks and will continue to suck for the foreseeable future. 
> Yes?
>
Erm, no? Java on Gentoo is quite good, and will only get better in the
foreseeable future.

-- 
Joshua Nichols
Gentoo/Java Project Lead
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[gentoo-java] Re: Re: gcj, maven, the GPL and ebuild

[Alistair Bush]

On Saturday 09 September 2006 23:19, Thufir wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:05:44 +0200, Krzysiek Pawlik wrote:
> > Thufir wrote:
> >> I've been sifting through the archives on these topics and would like a
> >> status report on java.  stat ;)
> >
> > One will be posted tomorrow after todays team meeting.
>
> Lucky timing for me, then :)
>
> >> Finally, I was amazed to read that maven is, apparently,
> >> windows-centric. Very disappointing.
> >
> > Any source on this?
>
> This mailing list.  There were complaints about maven being
> windows-centric.

Without reading back to see what esactly 'window-centric' means.  This may 
explain why gentoo doesn't support maven currently.

https://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/java/wiki/Maven_Notes
>
> >> The bottom line appears to be that java for Linux sucked, got better,
> >> but still sucks and will continue to suck for the foreseeable future.
> >> Yes?
> >
> > No.
>
> I'm not looking for a yes/no altercation; look forward to more info :)

> -Thufir

Java will 'suck' until the new java system can be stabilized.  After that it 
will 'rock'. 
Look around:
http://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/java/wiki/
and
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/java/index.xml
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[gentoo-java] Re: Re: gcj, maven, the GPL and ebuild

[Thufir]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:10:58 +0000, Alistair Bush wrote:
[...]
>> >> Finally, I was amazed to read that maven is, apparently,
>> >> windows-centric. Very disappointing.
>> >
>> > Any source on this?
>>
>> This mailing list.  There were complaints about maven being
>> windows-centric.
> 
> Without reading back to see what esactly 'window-centric' means.  This may 
> explain why gentoo doesn't support maven currently.


first, a quick note, gotta go.  second, glad to know the state of java's
better than I thought, my info was out of date. thifrdly, here's the quote:

"ant is a very good cross-platform tool. Maven OTOH seems to have been
specified by windows people for windows people. Unfortunately an awful
lot of projects target windows nowadays."

from:

From: Nicolas Mailhot <Nicolas.Mailhot@...>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [architecture] Re: JPackages and ObjectWeb]
Newsgroups: gmane.linux.jpackage.general, gmane.linux.debian.devel.java, gmane.linux.gentoo.java
Date: 2004-02-01 18:13:30 GMT (2 years, 31 weeks, 4 days, 8 hours and 28
minutes ago)

<http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.jpackage.general/4360/match=maven+windows>

err, I don't think that url will work...

of course, I'm just now noticing the date....



-Thufir

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