[gentoo-java] Re: Sun JDK fetching

[gentoo-java] Re: Sun JDK fetching

[Thufir]

On Thu, 12 May 2005, Yannick Menager wrote:
[...]
> Circumventing the implicit wishes of the copyright holder ???
[...]
> The case with JDocs is very different, they do not provide a *tool* to
> download/view/manipulates the J2SE API, they took it, and put it online
> on their website, which the license does not allow for.
>
> The equivalent of what they did is the equivalent of us putting the jdk
> binary in the gentoo mirrors, which is indeed not allowed by the
> license.

Why does the copyright holder, Sun, not grant the Gentoo Foundation a 
license to distribute the binary?  Weird territory, but could a license be 
purchased from Sun for a, hopefully, nominal amount?  Or, even, why would 
Sun want to charge the Gentoo Foundation any money at all?

Which brings up the contract.  I've downloaded and never read the 
contract, nor do I plan to.  So long as I don't redistribute the JVM, why 
does Sun even want a contract in the first place?


-Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-java] Re: Sun JDK fetching

[David Herron]

Actually we are offering Sun's JDK under a free license that allows  
any Solaris or Linux distribution to redistribute the binary.  I've  
been working with Joshua and Karl to help/advise them on integrating  
Sun's JDK with Gentoo under that new license.

The new license .. the DLJ .. Distribution License for Java or  
something like that .. is meant to enable an operating system  
redistributor, like Gentoo, to easily incorporate Sun's JDK with  
their OS distribution.  The work for Gentoo is in Gentoo's package  
system now and there are instructions on the gentoo.org web site in  
the Java user guide on how to install Sun's JDK alongside other  
JDK's.  I understand the bits are still in the unstable branch.

You can learn about the license and the program at http://jdk- 
distros.dev.java.net/

The DLJ was announced on May 16, 2006 at Java ONE this year.  I see  
that the email you're responding to was written long before we  
announced the DLJ.  I just read the email thread you're responding  
to, and it was a painful walk down memory lane.  Of course the DLJ  
announcement was immediately overshadowed by the other announcement  
that day.  Hopefully between the DLJ license and the imminent  
beginning for open source Java, that we can put all the past pain  
behind us.

- David Herron



On Sep 9, 2006, at 12:07 AM, Thufir wrote:

> On Thu, 12 May 2005, Yannick Menager wrote:
> [...]
>> Circumventing the implicit wishes of the copyright holder ???
> [...]
>> The case with JDocs is very different, they do not provide a  
>> *tool* to
>> download/view/manipulates the J2SE API, they took it, and put it  
>> online
>> on their website, which the license does not allow for.
>>
>> The equivalent of what they did is the equivalent of us putting  
>> the jdk
>> binary in the gentoo mirrors, which is indeed not allowed by the
>> license.
>
> Why does the copyright holder, Sun, not grant the Gentoo Foundation  
> a license to distribute the binary?  Weird territory, but could a  
> license be purchased from Sun for a, hopefully, nominal amount?   
> Or, even, why would Sun want to charge the Gentoo Foundation any  
> money at all?
>
> Which brings up the contract.  I've downloaded and never read the  
> contract, nor do I plan to.  So long as I don't redistribute the  
> JVM, why does Sun even want a contract in the first place?
>
>
> -Thufir
>
> -- 
> gentoo-java@gentoo.org mailing list
>

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Re: [gentoo-java] Re: Sun JDK fetching

[Greg Tassone]

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Great response... thanks for taking the time -- I was about to do so
myself.

On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 08:49 -0700, David Herron wrote:
> Actually we are offering Sun's JDK under a free license that allows  
> any Solaris or Linux distribution to redistribute the binary.  I've  
> been working with Joshua and Karl to help/advise them on integrating  
> Sun's JDK with Gentoo under that new license.

Thanks for assisting the Gentoo distro (and therefore all of us) in this
way.


> I just read the email thread you're responding  
> to, and it was a painful walk down memory lane.  ...  
> Hopefully between the DLJ license and the imminent  
> beginning for open source Java, that we can put all the past pain  
> behind us.

I hope *strongly* for the same.  I observe a huge amount of
idealogical-based dislike of the Java platform/language in the Open
Source world.  IMO, the overarching reason for this is due to current
licensing issues.  Without commenting on the merits of that view, I
eagerly hope for the day I can have a straight-forward, unencumbered
technical discussion with such folks on the massive value of Java.  At
least then our technical flame-wars can be based on the appropriate
topic. ;-)

Here's to the future.  I hope Sun walks openly and properly into this
new era (chooses a good OSI license, etc.) within the next month or two.
If so, IMHO, Java will become a dominating force across the Open Source
world as it has in other walks of life.

~ Greg


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[gentoo-java] Java Open Source - was: Re: Sun JDK fetching

[David Herron]

Greg, thank you for your reply.

We have said through several people at several times, for Java we  
will be using an OSI-approved license.  I haven't heard that a  
license choice has been made.  But the team is, so far as I've seen,  
very intent on adopting a proper open source attitude and project set- 
up.  Not that it will be that way out of the gate ... we have a long  
history behind us with institutional wisdom surrounding the processes  
we've been following.  I don't think you can just throw a big switch  
and instantly make everything open-source-purist.  FWIW, what will be  
released "soon" is the VM (or was it just HotSpot?), javac and  
javahelp.  Other pieces will be coming later on.

An example is the Open Solaris process which took 5 yrs before they  
were able to even launch the beginning of the open source project,  
and then it was several months beyond that of getting pieces in  
place, governance settled, etc.

I sincerely hope we do this properly as well.

If you guys have any thoughts, desires, advice, etc about how we're  
doing this let me know.

- David Herron

On Sep 9, 2006, at 11:33 AM, Greg Tassone wrote:

> Great response... thanks for taking the time -- I was about to do so
> myself.
...
>
> Here's to the future.  I hope Sun walks openly and properly into this
> new era (chooses a good OSI license, etc.) within the next month or  
> two.
> If so, IMHO, Java will become a dominating force across the Open  
> Source
> world as it has in other walks of life.
>
> ~ Greg
>

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